The Jen Lister Podcast

Interview with Pariss Sailsman Founder of Journal To Dreams - we talk parenting, Black Women in Business & how we can all make it to the top!

• Jennie Bardrick • Season 1 • Episode 7

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Pariss and I talk parenting, Black Women in Business & how we can all make it to the top! This episode is all about the founder of Journal To Dreams Pariss Sailsman. Pariss started her business in January 2021. Pariss is a specialist practitioner, and she works with women, children and families. She's also a writer, and her ebook 'Mindset Glowing' is just incredible, you can get your copy on her website www.journaltodreams.com.

Journal To Dreams is all about helping people find their truth, Pariss explains the most important thing is to ensure you can be present with your loved ones, set aside time where you aren't infront of a screen, so you can be present with other people. Also spend time with yourself.

Pariss is all about empowerment, uplifting others, and her mantra is 'We're all gonna make it to the top.' Her Instagram is @journaltodreams.

Pariss sets out her journey that led her to start her business, including the challenges she faced, and what Journal To Dreams is all about, including her proudest moments in business. And what her next goals in business are.

Pariss gives her top tips to anyone thinking of writing an ebook, which include making sure you are writing from the heart, and breaking the project into small sections.

Jen and Pariss discuss the under representation of women in general and also black women in business.

Thank you so much for listening to the Jen Lister podcast. I truly appreciate every single one of you. If you'd like to leave me a review on your podcast app, I would love that. And if you'd like to follow me on social media, it's @jenlistercoaching on Instagram and LinkedIn

Click here to get my 7 mindset steps to starting or scaling your business.

Join my monthly free business  strategy advice newsletter, click here to subscribe.

Journal To Dreams Website www.journaltodreams.com
Instagram @journaltodreams

Music and production by the amazing Strike Productions

Jennie Lister:

Hello, and welcome to the Jen Lister Podcast. Here I'll be chatting about life, business growth strategies and sharing my personal journeys along the way. I will also be interviewing some incredible guests who are experts in their field, see it as my little black book of business. Hello, and welcome back to the journalists podcast. I am so excited to have the incredible Pariss Sailsmen with me today. So Pariss is the founder of journal to dreams which she started in January 2021. Pariss is a specialist practitioner, and she works with women, children and families. She's also a writer and her ebook mindset glowing is just incredible. And we'll be talking a little bit about that. But for me, when I've kind of met Pariss on my journey, she's all about empowerment, uplifting others, and I love your mantra, we're all gonna make it to the top. I think that is so incredible. Her Instagram is @journaltodreams if you want to check her out. But Pariss, I'll let you do a little intro if you want as well.

Pariss Sailsmen:

My name is Pariss. I'm the founder of journal to dreams, which was founded in 2021. I wear a number of different hats, I'm a specialist practitioner. But I'm a writer, and I work with women, children and families with the main aim of guiding women, children and families back home to themselves. And what I mean by that is, quite often we aligned with society's values and what we should be and who we should be and the milestones that we should be achieving in life. So for me, it's really let's get back to basics. What do you love, what brings you peace, and I'm really encouraging children and young people to do that, specifically children because I feel like it's a lot harder for them to have a look at what their innate value is, what they bring to the world and what makes them feel happy rather than grades and education and school, because I've done a lot of workshops where children have said, I am bound by my grades. And that's not necessarily what I'm good at. So I feel like in the last, I'd say a few months, I've really been working tastefully with children and young people, because I just feel like they're our future. So that's where the heart of my work has been. But overall, I love working with women, children and families. I couldn't even pick which one I love. Yeah, and like I said, the mantra, we're all gonna make it to the top. It's not about competition. There's room and space for us all to thrive. And it's about building a community that where we can do that together. Because it gets lonely. The Journey gets lonely. So yeah,

Jennie Lister:

oh, my goodness, it really does. And your business is so interesting, because you kind of started out focusing a little bit more on women really. And it's kind of evolved into that. Helping children. But that is such an amazing place to start, isn't it? Because we have to start from the ground up?

Pariss Sailsmen:

No, absolutely. I did. I started with because prior to starting the business, there was a multisystemic therapist, which was working with children and families. And then prior to that I worked for the youth justice service for five years. So my heart was in children and young people anyway, it's embedded in my blood. And so I thought, let me try something different and start working with women. But for some reason, young people have aligned back through my journey, which I'm not mad at. I absolutely absolutely love it. But I just love having the variation of being able to help different parts of the community. It's just it's a true blessing.

Jennie Lister:

So if there's people listening that have got children, how would you advise them? What would you say to them? How could they help guide their children in the right way without getting all that pressure around grades and schooling,

Pariss Sailsmen:

it's so so difficult, and in the voice of the child, one of the things that children always say to me, which is heartbreaking for that to look at my parenting style as well is that I don't feel listened to Yeah, often it's the case of children shouldn't be heard children should just listen. However, when you actually listen to a child's voice and what they're actually saying it adds so much value in learning for us. And I know that when I was growing up, it was like children shouldn't be heard, you should just listen. Do as I say, not as I do. I really trying to break down that generational curse, so to speak, because there's so much value in what a young person says. And when I have young people in sessions I say, people just don't listen to me. I just want to be listened to so I always say we your children have to have worry time have protected time, half an hour or even 15 minutes after school to say, how would you day What did you enjoy? What can I help you with? You know, we're all busy, like I've got a business and two children and how hard is a partner as well. So I know how hard it is to create that time. But you have to be intentional because I think that's where children will stray to peers and friends that they feel part of a feel listened to. So if you can create that, that kind of bubble, that safe bubble at home, it's half a job. Because I always say that children should feel safe to express their emotions with people that they love. So if you can do that you've lost the battle. And it's really it's just a simple thing. It's just listening intently.

Jennie Lister:

Definitely. And I feel like I love the idea of the Scandinavian model where I believe I don't have homework so much and it's more about family time together. I just feel like there's so much pressure all the time when you've got children to be studying and homework and learning and get the best grades hard.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Yeah, I love that. That's it, isn't it? It's how do we prepare our children for the world? Aside from the grades? How do we prepare them that they can be emotionally resilient, that they can have safety that they can talk to the don't always have this mask on in this facade, you can let that go and talk about how you feel. Because I think that's really what's missing. And that's what I'm here for the young people that I work with.

Jennie Lister:

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things we're going to talk about is having a vision and feeling like you'll never achieve it. But tell me about that. Tell me about your experiences and what we can learn.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Oh, gosh, yes. So my journey started out as I'm never ever going to achieve what I set out to do. And the beginning of my journey was very much grounded in imposter syndrome, a lack of self belief, it really was a spiral. So I had this passion and this, this burning feeling in my heart to create change to create legacy, but I just didn't think I was capable of doing it. I really didn't. So I think rewind to around 2020, I had a lot of visions, I wanted to create change, I didn't know how it would be but have you ever when you've started a business or you've got a vision or you've got a goal, you keep getting these premonitions or different visions, or you might have a dream. And I remember in 2020, added cream, and it was me, it's almost like cinema credits. I don't if we spoke about this in the workshop that I delivered, but it was like cinema credits, and it said, the ball is in the court of the business owner. And I remember jumping out of my sleep and writing it down in my notes in my phone. So that was the start of it. I didn't know what the business was going to be what I was going to be doing, but I just wrote it down. And that's parked it. And then later on in that year, because I've been working with utility service for five years, I just wasn't happy. And I just went down a downward spiral. I just remember looking in the mirror and just thinking, who am I? I don't feel proud. How am I going to make this change. And I just had a huge breakdown. I really did. I don't even know what to describe it because I didn't get necessarily specialist intervention or spoke to people I spoke to family. But I just didn't feel it myself. It was almost like an out of body experience. I just didn't know who I was. So that's when the journey and the Shadow Work started. So much happen. Like I'd had a child who was meant to be down syndrome. And then he was born healthy. And then I had postnatal depression, so much happening in that time. And it just forced, yeah, it drove so much change, I needed to make that change. And I can't live like this anymore. So then I just started brainstorming and Journal To Dream, I don't even know where that name came from. I think it's because I always used to write down my visions in my in my notes in my phone and things that I wanted to achieve. So and journal a lot write things down. And then I just picked journal to dreams because I need to start making these dreams a reality. Now I need to start making change. There's only two things that can happen. You can succeed or you can learn. Yeah, I only started to gain. And so that's kind of where it started when I started on a whim, just putting posts on Instagram. And then it gained traction. And I think the main thing was is because I was leading by heart. I wasn't thinking about what was posted. I was just posting. And I think that's how you find your tribe, isn't it when you're just being authentic to yourself?

Jennie Lister:

That is so amazing. Yeah. And I completely feel that what you said about premonitions and those little kind of what's the word those like inclinations, those ideas that come up in your head and they pop up? And quite often we just suppress them and be like with we think oh, actually, no, that's that's not a good idea to do that. But actually, when you go with it, that's you flow in with your intuition. And it's just beautiful. And I think we met through Instagram, right, which is just amazing. And I'm so grateful to have met you. And the minute that I saw your stuff I just felt so inspired. And that it was like you say it was completely from the heart is completely genuine. You're not trying to be anyone else but yourself. Yeah. Oh, no. Which is really authentic.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Yeah, I think somehow we just aligned. Like, I just felt your energy. And you obviously felt mine. And we just clicked Yeah. And I love when that happens when it's not planned. But you just meet amazing people on your journey. And you're very much embedded in my tribe. We value your presence and everything. So yeah, it's lovely to admit, it really is.

Jennie Lister:

Yeah, absolutely. No, I feel the love 100%. So talk to me about your ebook. Because when you said for like you'd never achieve it. I imagined writing an ebook or writing a book in any sense was something you didn't think you're going to achieve but you massively have.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Yeah, that's funny because I read that even when I was off sick from work. I think it was the end of 2020 I had this like emotional breakdown, and I went off sick from my job for three months. Yeah. And in that time, my grandmother passed away as well. So there was just a lot going on. And I just thought you know what, how can I use his time to create change and create legacy for myself and for others? And we just started writing this writing, writing, writing, I grabbed that and everything is so poor, but I was just throwing things on the on the page, empty muscle. And that's just that just haven't started and I didn't even think that I was going to Release. At that time, it was just a case of just journaling, just writing things down. Yeah. Then I started sectioning things off into different areas. What would I want to say? I was trying to overcome a challenge, or what would I want to see in a year's time, based on how I feel now. And that's where it came from. It really did. I wanted it to be something reflective, because I get bored easily. So it needs to be short. That's why I thought an ebook. And it needed to have some areas of reflection, hence why there's small little activities and stuff in there. And it needed to have some testimonies for myself. So it felt real. So those are the things that are kind of put in there. Yeah. And then he's had feedback from marketing isn't the best theory, I must say, I kind of popped it. Now. It's on the website. But I don't often put it on my social media or anything, but people are still buying it. And the feedbacks really amazing. So it's, yeah, it's a blessing. And I wanted it to be affordable as well. Yeah. And that was, that was a thing for me.

Jennie Lister:

So if people want to have a look at it, it's on your website, which is journaltodreams.com. Brilliant. So if anyone out there wants to write a book, I mean, for me, that's something that's definitely on my vision board. What would you say to someone in terms of like, because because I feel like we make goals sometimes that are really big, like, I want to get a book published, and it becomes so big that you think is never going to happen. And it's just too big. So how would you say to someone to break it down to just just start?

Pariss Sailsmen:

First of all, I would say it's never too big. And I can say that from kind of personal experience. But I think in terms of achieving that, you have to be realistic in breaking it down into small sections. And what I would say as well is make sure it's always from the heart, because then that way, it's never fake, or no one can ever hold you accountable. Just always make sure it's lived experiences. It's from the heart. And I just think you can't go wrong. And I think that's where a lot of them basically, as entrepreneurs from from experience struggle, because they're aligning with what they think is their business should be rather than it being a testimony of their experience or what they want to deliver to the world. And I can never lose because I'm always doing. I'm intuitive and leading by heart. So that's all I would say. Just where do you think you can add value? What's an experience that other people would benefit from? What's a question that you think needs to be answered that you wanted to know previously in your journey? Yeah, that was the main aim of always having a question or challenge that needs to be needs to be answered.

Jennie Lister:

Yep. I love that. I love that. So obviously, you've got lots of amazing achievements. But what would you say is your proudest moment so far? From journal to dreams?

Pariss Sailsmen:

I think there's been a few. I think there's loads, I think, can I name more than one?

Jennie Lister:

Yes, you can.

Pariss Sailsmen:

I think the first one is being able to public speak yes, that if you would have said to me, but I never ever, ever would have dreamed. Because I still don't call myself a public speaker by any stretch of the imagination. It's just something that I fell into, because people wanted to hear my story. So being able to go out and speak to a roomful of women, that still blows my mind. And those women actually, so I was thought, why would people want to hear my story or what I've got to say, or the value that I've got to add? So that's the first thing because I just remember having a fear of public speaking and actually passing out when I delivered my first training. Oh, wow, did you actually pass out stuff? Oh, yeah. I've never been so embarrassed. But my limiting beliefs told me that I wasn't good enough. And that I didn't have anything any value to add. And that same time in school because I was on read table. So red table is a table for underachievers. And I still remember that, that one years old. And I remember being like, and my everything up until probably around three years ago, had stemming from that belief that I wasn't good enough. Wow. Crazy is that for children, young people is so important. Because look at that experience that's kind of embedded every decision that I make. It's it's crazy. So I've had to unlearn that. And another belief, I think is or something else that I'm proud of is the workshops that are delivered for women. I had one recently and one of the women just said look, I've never ever done shadow work. I've never encouraged myself to look within. And I think it was part of the the workshop and she just said like, you have been my change. And And yeah, that was amazing. And another woman who said as well and thank you for teaching me how to love again, because you just weren't noticing self or to look at anybody else. So just just things like that I still quite a still can't quite believe that. That's the change that I'm creating for people. And that's to me, that's legacy. It really is.

Jennie Lister:

Absolutely. And I think women in particular struggle with self love and looking after themselves and putting themselves first so the work that you do like making people value themselves again is just so important

Pariss Sailsmen:

The Journey Begins With Self. Yeah, so like on the show I've had to learn that I need to love myself unconditionally as well and love the darker parts of myself. And when I say darker, I mean the areas that I've repressed like the imposter syndrome. So I and that's why it's essential for me to share my own journey. Absolutely. And speak about what your struggles because people need to see where I'm coming from as well. Yeah. And I think society teaches us that we can't be egotistical. We're not supposed to sing our praises and brag about the things that we've done. Yes, we are because we're proud. So why can't we tell people about the amazing things that we're doing?

Jennie Lister:

Absolutely. And be open about the vulnerabilities and the challenges that we've been through as well, because that makes us human and no one no one's invincible. No one goes through life without challenges.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Absolutely. nail on the head and normalising that as well that, you know, when you see people's journey on Instagram that we all post highlight reels. You know, there's there's times when me something you're really good at as well is posting the reality side of it. I do try. I absolutely love. Now you are, you're amazing. You've really got that sweet spot. And I think it's about normalising things like that as well.

Jennie Lister:

Yeah, I've heard a lot of feedback from people that say, they're really bored of seeing Perfect, perfect images, perfect lives, perfect families. And, yeah, I try to be a bit more real. We all go through hard stuff. And I try to share, I don't want to share everything. Because obviously there is a part of you when you want to keep personal. But I do try and share stuff that I hope will inspire other people. Because everyone goes through similar things. But for you, it feels a lot worse at the time. But actually, when people reach out and say, send their love and send their support it it Yeah, it makes you realise that we're all human. And we're all connected.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Absolutely. No, I completely agree.

Jennie Lister:

So we've talked about your proudest moments, obviously, I'm going to ask you what have been your biggest challenges because I know you've talked about impostor syndrome. I definitely feel that sometimes, too. And I know a lot of people that listen to this podcast, definitely feel that as well.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Yeah, definitely. And I think one of the hardest things has been balance. If I'm completely honest, I had it balance is huge. And it's something that I didn't predict when I started this journey balance in terms of balance with children and a family and a household. And those responsibilities, but balance in terms of myself my own journey, having time for myself, and balances in when to stop giving Yes, because those boundaries are there. But I almost feel like when you're employed, you can at five o'clock you can switch off because you know that that is in the hands of somebody else. It's somebody's organisation, there's always somebody at the top that could oversee things. But in business, you are at the top. So when do you switch off? And when you turn your laptop off at night? And when do you think Okay, time for a break? Yeah. And because I'm a comer still call myself a baby business. Because I'm still very much in the early days. And I'm still trying to strike that balance. And I think I'm starting to get better at it now. Like, for instance, August for me was reduced my work right. And just be more intentional getting out in nature, spending time with loved ones, spending time with my kids, and just start amazing. Sleeping more laptop. So I think having balance and trying to be more intentional, it's hard. And a lot of the clients that I work with say that how do you do it? And I'm like, the truth is, it's a juggling act. And it's difficult. And I'm not gonna sit here and say it's not hard. But you have to schedule you have to prioritise and you have to time is so important. So use it wisely. Currency. So how do you want to use your time and unintentionally? And that's something I'm still learning as

Jennie Lister:

well, definitely, I think you talked about boundaries, I think boundaries are fundamental and not just having boundaries. And that be it, you have to look at them regularly, especially when you've got a family and you've got a partner because I find that I'll make boundaries maybe with my clients or with my work schedule or with my family. And then they start to slip and slip and slip and slip. And then you have to reset them again, or things change or I don't know your child then goes to school or a different things change in your life. And you need to look at the boundaries. Again, they're not something that should be static, and that you just look at once and you go, Okay, I've set all my boundaries, everything's perfect. We're gonna just keep rolling like this,

Pariss Sailsmen:

You absolutely hit the nail on the head. And that's what I tried to say is you do realise that your boundaries can change and you can, you can set new boundaries at any point doesn't matter in any relationship in any circumstance that you want to because the old boundaries don't align with where you go in, you're allowed to do that. And a lot of people it blows their mind, they can't comprehend that they're allowed to move the benchmark and set new boundaries for themselves. So what you said is so important.

Jennie Lister:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And just thinking about the timescale. So you and I set our businesses at similar times in 2021. So just post pandemic, kind of in the middle of the pandemic, actually. We know I'm gonna be honest here. A lot of businesses fail in the first three years. So we're not over that hump yet. So we're gonna cheer each other on and keep each other going. What do you think is next for Journal To Dreams? Like? What are your next kind of goals and things that you want to be focusing on?

Pariss Sailsmen:

So many things? And I think that's why we've had so many conversations, because I think that's what you do really well. I think we've set haven't we, in the past that I just roll with things. And I don't necessarily, I'm not always amazing at the strategy side. So I'm like, you're really good at that. So I have been really flowing with gentle streams, and just Yeah, flowing up on lily. And but I think I love that. But there needs to be strategy as well. And, and that's something that I've always said, It's not my, it's not my strength. I just like to just deliver and just be around the clients. And so we still have a chat. But I think I, there's so many things I want to do, and I keep having to write things in my phone, I've got so many visions. So I want to do retreat, I'd love to do a treat retreats, but with children and families. So you might have kids in one area, and then you might have support for the couples, wherever that's called interventions or what everybody's in one complex. Wow. I'd love to. I'd love to do and I want to I'm looking to do next specific workshops for young females. And I think we've had a conversation with XL would love to bring you in on that.

Jennie Lister:

Oh, I love that so much. Yeah, and just the we're talking about women and girls in a minute, actually, because that's such an important topic.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Yes. So I'd love to do that. And I want to do an event. So like a really intimate event around 30 women to start with, where I can have a panel of guest speaking women and love goodie bags. And we just share and we've just got a couple of just, I want it to be really grand, like in a lovely environment. It's got a lot of green and real estate home or something and just get women together and just celebrate women, and love to do that. And this summer, I'd love to have a team. I really want a team. But I'm also really mindful that it has to be people that Lieber heart and are also really passionate. And yeah, that's why I'm not my bait like this is my baby. So I need to make sure that whoever I'm bringing in, has that same drive and law. I'm not too bothered about accolades and things like that. I just want you to love what you do and just want to serve women, children and family. So yeah, that's that's the vision, but you need to fine tune things.

Jennie Lister:

Yeah. Oh, my goodness, that all sounds incredible. So so many things to achieve. So let's talk about success. In general. So one of the topics that I'm really passionate about talking about is the under representation of women, but also the under representation of black women in business. And that's something that I really want to change in the future. I know that you're really passionate about it as well. So what do you think it takes to be successful woman in business, but also a successful black woman in business?

Pariss Sailsmen:

I'd absolutely love that you've as it as a white female. I love that you brought that to the table. I really do think it's something that people shy away from. Yeah. And it's something that I've experienced in my journey. And I think it's more so about the mindset, I think, as as women, but also as black women. I start with black women, I think as black women, we we often get in our own way. Imposter syndrome. Speaking to black business owners, imposter syndrome is rife amongst black business owners, because we know from statistics, aren't we that in terms of funding, we're not put at the forefront for funding opportunities for things like that. So I think really getting out of our own ways, the first thing that if that mindset work, believing that we deserve to be sat around that table, yeah, kick down those doors, sit around that table and tell your story. Okay. Yes, as blackmail. And we might come across as more passionate, which sometimes is listed as aggressive, will be authentically yourself. Because that's, that's who we are. And that's what we bring to the table. So I think, let's not try and conform and, and don't settle down because that's, that's the beauty of who we are as black women. Absolutely. And I think it's very similar to women as well. Let's not dwell ourselves down when we're in a table and or a space full of men. Yeah, speak up about what you bring to the table, your innate value, and let's not, let's not, let's not shying away from who we are and what we what we can achieve. And also open, speak openly and widely about the legacy that you want to create. I think that's a huge thing as well, because I have got a lot to prove not just to the world, but to myself. As a black woman, as a black woman. I want to show all the little black girls that we can achieve anything. Yeah, look for us. And that's so much about where I started, like I started with a mental health breakdown. I started with a vision but I didn't know where I wanted to go with it. But look what happens when you lead by heart and you believe in yourself. It's just honestly his belief. And you know that when people say Oh, it's so cliche mindset is everything. It really is. Yeah, it honestly is

Jennie Lister:

Absolutely. And I think we all have those As little visions come up for us, whether it's in our dreams like yours was, or whether it's, when we're out on a on a walk in nature somewhere, we have these ideas. And I guess for me, it's about girls and females in general, just not ignoring them, and writing them down and taking a little bit of action towards achieving them. Even if it's like, okay, like you said, I'm just going to do loads of journaling in my, in my notepad, whether it's coming up with names for a brand, if you want to create your own brand, or whether it's drawing out your website and making up this, this idea that you want to create a social movement or a new business, or whatever it may be. The legacy part is so important, because I believe that black women in particular must have so such incredible stories that they can share with the world to make people understand what it's like and how we can encourage them to thrive.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Yeah. And I think one of the main, one of the main, like, misconceptions when I speak to black women is that we were taught generationally, we have to be strong. We have to be strong, we have to be independent, we don't cry, we just get things done. Yeah. And, and it's really on learning that you don't have to be strong, like, Yeah, let's let go of that narrative now. Because it's outdated. Yeah, there's times when I cry, I'm gonna feel weak. There's times when I need I need my loved ones to lift me up. Like, we're not we're not doing that anymore. And I'm a really speak a lot about that when I speak to my black female clients, and the black young children that that I work with, and just say, you don't have to be strong, like, where's this come from? Why are you why are you different? You're not allowed to cry? Yeah, you're allowed to cry. I think that that one's huge is narrative that we have to be strong. And it's even in, even in childbirth. Even in just in every area of our life. There's this misconception, conception that we need to be strong. We don't need pain relief. We don't need there's there's just so much that I've even when I had my little ones, it was almost like I'm saying a lot of pain. And they say, Oh, well, you don't look like you're in pain. I'm telling you, I'm in pain. And it's the pain relief. So even that that's a typical example. Does, there's so many stereotypes of what a black woman should be. Yes. And I'd love seen when black women, women, just frightening to so many amazing female businesses out there. And it hot, it warms my heart like I'm a whole heart smile. So to think, wow, you're you're really creating change.

Jennie Lister:

Absolutely. And I think I think a practical thing that you can do is look and try to support those women, those women in business. So try to purposely go for those underrepresented groups in society when you're looking for services in your business. And when you're looking to grow your business. Yeah. And I think men have got a massive role to play in that as well, because there's so many men in business and in corporate jobs, making big decisions, they need to be making purposeful effort to bring in women, black women, all different cultures, because they're the ones that are in power, making the decisions quite often, unfortunately. Absolutely. It's like a multi faceted approach to this challenge.

Pariss Sailsmen:

And it's really nice, because I've actually met like males on my journey, white males that have been so, so appreciative of my journey, and what I bring as a black woman, even to the point where like, you know, head of services, and have said, as a black female, I think you'd be an amazing role model for some of the young people that we work with. So it is being recognised and it's so nice when it's people outside of the black community that are doing that. And I think that's an annulment that you're asking me, and it's your broadcast, but I think I really want to know, like, where your motivation has come from for that, because that has to be really intentional. And there has to be a why behind it. And I just love hearing, like, why

Jennie Lister:

have you? Yeah, I've got some interesting, I guess some interesting reasons, I guess, the Black Lives Matter movement was massive for me. And I at the time, had a business in the care sector. And I spoke to all of our carers that were from a different ethnic background to me. And I asked them, what is their point of view? Like, what could I do to help and I made loads of notes. That was something that really, really inspired me and made me really strongly want to be part of the change. But I was scared because as a white woman, I've read I've just recently finished reading Glennon Doyle's book called untamed which is incredible. But she talks she does some incredible stuff in this area. And she actually got criticised because she's a white woman, and she was trying to help black women in business and stuff. And she got criticised and called a racist and all these things which the book is amazing, I'd highly recommend it. So I'm almost nervous about the topic to some extent, but I'm not nervous enough to stop me wanting to do something about it. I've all So always, always had friends and boyfriends from different cultures. And I just for some reason I'm attracted to connecting with people that are from different different walks of life to me, because that's where I learned, like, that's how I learned. And I think life is really boring if we surround ourselves with people that are all the same as us.

Pariss Sailsmen:

That's absolutely incredible. And I always say, I'm really good parents, and I'm very intuitive. And we've had a few conversations away from here, haven't we, about race and about black women in business? And I always see like your how intently you listen, and we have discussions, and you've got a real interest. And I just think it's lovely and understanding some times it's what I've found is that, you know, when you hear black women talking about certain issues, it's almost dismissed. Because as a black woman, you're talking about black issues, it comes from other people, and it's a collective. Yeah. And other races, other ethnic minority or something, other ethnic backgrounds, it almost feels more that we're we're creating that change, because it's different voices of reason.

Jennie Lister:

Yeah and I think the other thing for me was my brother was quite passionate about it as well, when Black Lives Matter happened. And he read up quite a lot about it. And that was the first time that I really understood white privilege. And I understood how, how, yeah, underrepresented, not only black people were but particularly black women. And then I was like, Oh, my goodness, my heart, I'm all I've always been very passionate about the gender pay gap, and just women in general in business not being a senior in companies. And yeah, and I think that was a trigger for me as well just I was opened up to realising that I was actually just being born as a white female, I was naturally going to have more opportunities than perhaps a black female, which I just think is, is mental. And it should not be like that. And I, I have a daughter. So again, another reason like I'm so passionate about her, surrounding herself by different cultures. And yeah, that is something that I've just want to make sure happens throughout her life. I mean, we live in ethics, but actually, she has got friends from all different cultures. And I love that. And I encourage it, and I think it's so so important.

Pariss Sailsmen:

That's absolutely yes, absolutely incredible. And it's something that is and every time we say, and it's like, Wow, it's amazing, because I can really see comes from a genuine place. And I think a lot of people get upset when they see, for instance, like black owned initiatives, or black women in business forums and groups. But I think it's because we are lucky said, you know, we have to work a lot harder to get where we get. So when we do see that we recognise it and we praise it and when you achieve it, because it's amazing. And I suppose that's that place, isn't it? Where as a white person, you don't necessarily see the privilege that you have, because you don't see that reason why we have to have those black owned initiatives, and there's no black on forums to celebrate that because it's not been as easy the journey hasn't been as easy. And to get to where we've got Yep. The amount of trials and tribulations and setbacks that we've had to endure is is is amazing. So yes, absolutely. I'll keep talking about it is I love to see

Jennie Lister:

Yes, yes, I will. And I continue to try and bring it into my business in ways that I can. And I know we've talked about perhaps doing something with young females from different cultures. And like even this is a random example. But I looked at this young entrepreneurs panel, and they they awarded prizes, to the best young entrepreneurs, this this was like young children, early teenagers, I guess. And there was no black women, there was like one female, that it was in the top sort of five and the rest were all all males. There was one black male, and I was like, come on, come on. Yeah. Is it that? Is it that girls aren't putting themselves forward? Or is it that they're not getting chosen? Or they're not good enough? Or I don't know, like, what is the reason? And I just, I really hope that we can change that.

Pariss Sailsmen:

It's definitely I think it's a bit of everything. And I think that's why, you know, on my journey, like I said, we're all gonna make it to the top because I'm bringing everybody with me. Everyone's going along with me, because we're a community. And we've all been through this journey together.

Jennie Lister:

Absolutely. Absolutely. We can all make it to the top. Tell me more about that. Like how do you think we can help each other? What are the practical things we can do to actually make that happen? Because saying it is one thing, but what what's the actual tangible stuff we can do?

Pariss Sailsmen:

So one of my core values is collaboration and networking. And I think it's important because as, as business owners, we know it's really, really lonely. Absolutely. And B as business owners, we know that we can't meet this common goal by ourselves. We can't. So one of the things that I've been doing in the last year or so is building networks with people that do similar things to me, and we all have the same outcome, but we're just a achievement in completely different ways. And so for instance, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely and, and what I love about the women that I've come across is that they don't feel like it's a competition, we all want the same outcome for the people that we serve. So we're just working together to do it. And a typical example of that was when you said about the real law degrees of this workshop, the well being workshops with a fever, young little girl, that's, that was for an organisation called The in essence, youth mentoring organisation, and they work specifically with girls. So they invited me to come in to do it. And that's what I mean about that collaboration and all making it to the top. Because what we're doing is we're, we're working together for a common cause. So they do mainly youth work, I do mainly therapeutic stuff. So they bought my expertise in, and they bought loads of people in select handle makers, and all those kinds of different things to add value to those girls, ultimately. And that's what I mean about all of us, to the top coming together for a common goal, but delivering it in different ways. That's incredible. Yeah. And another way of that is bringing women together. So bringing women together that might have fruit. So it's like what you do, when you do like the, the village, you do amazing stuff, you have amazing job of bringing women together in business that might have the same issue or problem that they want to solve. Yeah, that in itself is helping each other to the top. Yeah. Because you help each other to solve those those issues that they may have all have problems or those mindsets. Again, we're helping each other to make the top. So all those things that's exactly what I mean, working in collaboration and helping each other. And just because you give someone your value doesn't mean you're taken out of your pocket. Yeah, do understand what I mean. So true, that that's what we're here to do to add value. And because mean, you were completely different. So I might give you a piece of value today. And you might deliver that somebody else that helps them another 100 people, but that hasn't taken out of my pocket, because I probably never would have met those people anyway. And b You're going to deliver in a completely different way to what I would

Jennie Lister:

absolutely, yeah, gently to people. And I think that's how women operate in business slightly different to men as well, I think that's what they bring is. I met with someone this week, and we were talking about relationships and how we could support each other and grow each other's businesses and recommend each other. And we were talking about commission. And when we decided we're like, we're not really bothered about commission like we'd much rather have a strong natural relationship and recommend each other then kind of benefit financially from it. And I think that's how women just operate naturally like that, because we're naturally sociable, and we want to build those genuine relationships. That is

Pariss Sailsmen:

so true, because it goes back to that divine and, and some of the masculine and feminine energy, you know, as men are very logical, strategic, and whereas women were nurturers, we like to have conversations, we like to be creative. And that's where that value comes from as female business owners, I feel because we want to build those networks, and we want to nurture each other.

Jennie Lister:

Absolutely, absolutely. So I've got a really rogue topic to ask you about. It's not really because it's a really important topic. But for some reason, I know you love going with the flow, it just came to me or something I want to ask you. So as you work a lot with children, something that I've experienced, you possibly have experienced and a lot of children experience and I absolutely can't stand is bullying. So do you experience it in your work? Have you experienced it? And how do you how do you navigate that? Like for a teenager, for example, it's so tough.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Yeah, I come across it a lot. And my first experience was that in working at a youth club, and my D sessions have developed a therapeutic haven't my contract ended with them. So I'm hoping to start some work with them again, too. But um, I used to do like some therapeutic sessions with them and like workshops and used to do a let's talk Initiative, where we bought children and young people around the table and we discussed different topics that affected or impacted them on a day to day basis. And, and my first experience of that was working with an 11 year old who was in year six, and she was getting bullied because of her body shape. And because of her race, and was told that she was ugly. And that blew my mind because I thought 11 years old in year six, and these are the things but even like sexual and explicit insults as well. So it absolutely blew my mind because when when I was in school, he was like, you've got a big head. I used to get it wasn't as complex as that. And I could deal with that. Because I do have

Jennie Lister:

you haven't got a big head by the way, everyone everyone's gonna want to look at your head now but you haven't got a big big head I promise.

Pariss Sailsmen:

I could accept that but I think now the the complexity of what young people are dealing with now is on a whole different level. We're talking colorism. We're talking race. We're talking, um, sexuality. Yeah, we're talking gang violence. There's so much and it's not just bullying anymore. It's reached a whole new level. So Oh, so the first thing that I had to do was really reflect on how the issues have changed and what I can do to make that change. And that's why we created the let's talk initiative, because we needed to So yeah, the let's talk initiative sounds amazing. bring these things to the forefront. But we needed to have the voice of the children as well. So there's been a lot of safeguarding forms and things like that, that I've had to complete, because of the nature of the concerns, and a lot of multi agents working. And that's why I say that my approach is multi systemic. So when I'm working with children or young people, it's in school is in the home, it's in the community, because I have to bring that service to them. That's the only way they're going to feel comfortable. And so it's working in collaboration with schools, calling home and saying, Are you aware of this? What support do you need, and really creating that holistic package so that when they leave you centre, it's not just okay, the support ends there. But when I go back to school tomorrow, I'm still going to be bullied. How do what what are we going to mention? Because there's no point having this let's talk initiative, and not doing anything with information that we've got. Yeah. So there's so many different layers to it. And I think it's helping parents to understand that we're not navigating in a world that it once was. The things that no raising are completely different now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, as a parent, it's scary. As a human, it's scary. And there's been times I'll finish and I went home, and I cried, because I've just had to empty my heart that children young people have to carry, you wouldn't you wouldn't believe. And that's what I felt like, I really oppose the shiny stuff on on social media, but there's some days, I'll go home, and maybe I need to share it more. And there's some days that I do go Because I do feel like when you're in that school system, home, and I'm just like, Am I ever gonna even put a little dent into the change that I'm trying to create? Because there's just so much to do, and then it goes back to the collaborative working? and those around your peers and being influenced, sometimes you just need those little opportunities to be able to connect with an adult or to share your view in a different way. Or you just need that way of being able to get out of it or to open up about something. So that just sounds so inspiring. Definitely. I think sometimes I think there's the shortfalls with it. Because like I said, if once we take that information, or they give us that information, we have to know what to do with it next. And we have because that's the whole point of doing it. So that's why I love to have a team, just so that when I did those, if I hosted that let's talk initiative, then I could say, actually, can you contact this call going have a meeting with them about what we need to do next, then somebody else can you go into that you've sent out we'll have a chat with do you not mean just to be able to delegate so we can make real and effective change, but only being one person is just so difficult. The amazing thing is that I've got a really good partnership with that youth centre. So they help out a lot. And they've got a lot of connections. Yeah, but yeah, it's a huge, huge directories have so huge topic

Jennie Lister:

Okay. So what I want to ask you is a couple of things to wrap up. So going back to your mission, your overall kind of vision for Journal To Dreams, you're all about helping people finding their truth. So how can people go about doing that? What practical tips can you give them

Pariss Sailsmen:

being present is the first thing I didn't know how to be present. I thought I was president. So sitting down in my living room, watching a bit of TV with my family isn't presents, because it wasn't intentional. So it was there, but it wasn't present. So I think the first thing is creating space for yourself. But I mean, if you have to schedule it in and put an hour for Jen or an hour for Pariss, on that day, and go out by yourself, whether that's in nature, have a look at what, what, what makes you tick, because five years ago, nature wasn't for me, it's something that's new. Because because you have to learn to visit yourself first. And know what your why is and know what you want your legacy to be and know what makes you happy. So that's, that's the foundation, spending time with yourself. Because spending time with yourself can be hard. And it can be emotional, and it can be difficult because it forces you to look within Yeah, and I talk about that draw. You remember the draw analogy where you've got this draw in your house, we throw stuff in, you shut it and you ignore it because you scared of what's going to be in there. When you open it. You have to open that drawer and start exploring what you want what your own love languages what what makes you upset what your triggers are. And and that's where I will start in terms of living the truth because then only then can you start to for how you love changes going forward.

Jennie Lister:

I love that. And the more you spend that time with yourself, the more your intuition starts to come up, doesn't it? It rises, you get those ideas, you can get them out on paper, and even if you don't do anything with it right now or tomorrow, you might do something in a year or two years

Pariss Sailsmen:

exactly like the premonition that had in 2020. That was the ball is in the core of the business owner. I didn't know what that meant. I just wrote it in my phone and now revisited and that makes sense. Things don't always make sense at the time, but there's always a why. For everything.

Jennie Lister:

Yeah. Yeah, I've definitely written some really cringe worthy things in my journals and stuff. And then I found some recently when I Putting them and read them. I was like, That's so weird because I can kind of see how that was my business festering in the background of my, sort of my desires. So yeah, I think writing things down journaling is such a good good thing off the back of that kind of self care time that time on your own in nature for sure. That would be for me. Love a bit of nature. Okay, so Pariss, can you share just to end for us today, your website, your socials and anything that you've got going on, that people can get involved with? Whether it's your ebook or whatever is going on for you right now.

Pariss Sailsmen:

Yeah, so my website is journaltodreams.com My Instagram is@journaltodreams, Facebook Journal To Dreams. So glad that it was available. And the I suppose what you could help with actually be amazed me every six months, I like to do a paying it forwards. So the last one I did was in Gambia, I sent a barrel of sanitary products stationery books, it was a book campaign that we did to school in Gambia, hopefully that's arriving in September. And then, um, six months prior to that we did a charity walk for a haven, Wolverhampton, which is a domestic abuse charity. And at Christmas I want to do I want to do an initiative, whether that's kind of creating stationary packs for either I'm still brainstorming where I can do, it's either going to be a children's hospital, and mother and baby unit, or a disability charity. And I've been looking at scope, because I work with children as well. And so I guess just keeping an eye out for that. Because if you if you want to help in any way, whether that's donating any stationery or putting towards some kind of like gift package for a child, that will be amazing. Wow.

Jennie Lister:

And we can find out about that on your Instagram. And will it be on your website? Yeah,

Pariss Sailsmen:

website, social media. I'll be posting about that. So if anybody can help, that'd be amazing. And yeah, just just follow the journey. Because like I said, Because I flow, I can never really say which I'm working on, I need to work I do. I can never really say exactly what I'm doing in the next six months, I always have a vision of how I want it to look like I know that I want to go into schools from September, am delivering workshops. But yeah, just want to pay it forward to give back because I'm so fortunate to be in a space in the space that I'm in right now. So I have to practice gratitude over. So how can you expect more from life if you're not great at what you already have?

Jennie Lister:

Absolutely. I think that's a really good way to end. And I just want to do one last plug for your ebook mindset glowing, because that is incredible, inspiring if you want a little piece of Pariss in your life, and that is the best way right now. Oh, thank you so much for thank you so much for coming. And speaking on the journalist Podcast. I'm genuinely so grateful. And I've loved the last hour that we spent together.

Pariss Sailsmen:

It's been amazing. And as always, thank you for having me. Like I'm so blessed to have you on my journey. So thank you for everything.

Jennie Lister:

Thank you so much for listening to The Jen Lister Podcast. I truly appreciate every single one of you. If you'd like to leave me a review on your podcast app, I would love that. And if you'd like to follow me on social media, it's@jenlistercoaching on Instagram and LinkedIn