Katie Walker from The Mindful Parenting Company - Mindful Parenting Advice, The Importance of Dads, and Rediscovering Yourself After Becoming a Mummy

Join us on The Jen Lister Podcast as I chat with Katie Walker from The Mindful Parenting Company about parenting advice, the importance of dads in a family unit, and how to rediscover yourself after becoming a parent.

Something that I want from my podcast is for it to be not just about entrepreneurship and business, but about all of the other areas of our lives that we want to be thriving in.  So I have got Katie Walker on today, who is the Founder and Director and CEO of the mindful parenting company.

The mindful parenting company provides educational monthly baby and parenting boxes for under 24 month old children. Katie is also a fully qualified health visitor and nurse. And she is the creator of The Parenting Book Club for parents with under fives, which I'm a part of, and I absolutely love.

Join us as we explore how Katie's passion for entrepreneurship started, her story of success in business, and dive into the topic of mindful parenting along with advice on being a present parent.

We will also touch upon the invaluable role that fathers play within family units, and how to rediscover yourself after becoming a mummy.

Katie's website is www.themindfulparentingcompany.co.uk

Katie's Instagram is @the_mindful_parenting_company

People can hear more from Katie by either subscribing to her monthly educational baby and parenting boxes. 

Or joining her parenting book club, where you can learn great information from parenting books, without having to spend the time reading them. Your first month is free when you use the code ONEMONTHFREE

Follow me on social media, it's @jenlistercoaching on Instagram and LinkedIn.

My website is Jenlister.com

Click here to get my 7 mindset steps to starting or scaling your business

Music and production by the amazing Strike Productions

Podcast management by Dean at DBVirtual 

Transcript

Hello, and welcome to The Jen Lister Podcast. Here, I'll be chatting about life, business growth strategies, and sharing my personal journeys along the way. And we'll also be interviewing some incredible guests who are experts in their field. See, it's my little black book of business. Hello, and welcome back to the generalist podcast. I am really excited about my guest today. So something that I want from my podcast is for it to be not just about entrepreneurship and business, but about all of the other areas of our lives that we want to be thriving in. And as such, I have got Katie Walker on today, who is the Founder and Director and CEO of the mindful parenting company. She's a mother, I know you've got two daughters Katie. So the mindful parenting company provides educational monthly baby and parenting boxes for under 24 month old children. Katie is also a fully qualified health visitor and nurse. And she is the creator of the parenting book club for parents with under fives, which I'm a part of, and I absolutely love this book club. So there's so much to talk about. But parenting for me is so so important. I think we absolutely define ourselves as a mother or as a father. First and foremost, when people say to you tell us about yourself, we will think about our children don't wait. And I just think that we can't be thriving in our businesses without being mindful about that role and how important that is. So do you want to introduce yourself a bit? Katie, just tell us a bit more about yourself. Have I missed anything?
Hello? No. So haven't missed anything at all. My name is Katie. And as you said, I'm a mother of two. So they are now six and five years old. So had them quite close in age as well. So I kind of went through a really intense period of motherhood. Wow. And yeah, in the last two years, I have started my own business, helping me parents to go through that transition of parenting and to really offer them support when they need it the most. So that is my aim. And what's the age gap between your kids that have interests? It's 19 and a half months? Wow,
that is impressive.
I thought if I'm gonna have a second, I would have them quite close in age. And then it happened a little bit closer than I had necessarily planned. But it was good. It was great. I'm glad I'm happy with the age gap. Actually, it's it was difficult at the time. But really well most of the time now. So yeah, it's hopefully all worth it.
Definitely, I'm sure it is I'm sure it is. So let's I want to start with throwing into a bit of a random question. So I always try to ask my guests about that entrepreneurial moment. Because, for me, that was a really big shift in my life. I had that fire in my belly that I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I didn't quite know how to do it. And I'm intrigued to know how other people had that spark and that kind of moment of just going to jump the job in or whatever it might be. And I'm going to go out on my own. You said it was about two years ago that you decided to start your business. So did you have a moment? Or was it a gradual thing? Tell me about your story in that in that sense.
So I think ever since I can remember, I always came up with really crazy business ideas when I was younger and things even to the teens, when I discovered fake tan, I was trying to think of some kind of extending brush that could help you to put it on on your back and things like that. Yeah, there's all these crazy ideas. So I did a Spanish and business degree, first of all, when I was 18. And then when I finished that I went and lived in Japan for a while. And then I came home and I'd started my nursing. So I went straight from Japan into nursing literally two weeks later, I didn't really get a chance to think about what nursing was actually going to be like, but my mom was a nurse and I figured she really loves it and it's something really rewarding. And this is a real career that I can see myself having for the rest of my life. But then actually, the reality of being a nurse was completely different. So I moved around in nursing quite a bit. I moved into neonatal nursing because I found that actually I really wanted to work with babies a lot more I found that super interesting. And that is where my love of brain development and things. Really, I learned so much in neonatal nursing and then sorry I will get to The point that Mary, because I thought that I would like to have children at some point and I wanted to get away from the shift work but still work with children, I went in to help his team and found that absolutely, like, it's such a, it's such a great job, I know it gets a bit of a bad rep, but it's so fulfilling to help new families through this period of their lives, privileged to kind of see people at that time and help them through it. So after my first baby, I really felt like my husband actually really struggled with how to play with her, he didn't really know what to do, I think he felt quite self conscious, because I was the healthiest to and he felt like I knew what I was doing. And he didn't have a clue what he was doing. And so that was the first spark of thinking, actually, I need to help dads really to have more interest in helping their children and just playing with them and things like that. And then just gradually, things happened, where I thought, actually, this could be a really good thing, if it was a monthly box, or a monthly package that was delivered when the parents actually needed the support really felt with healthiest thing that you have you set appointments, six weeks for newborn, and then at six weeks, and then at one year. But actually, unless you are in a specific group of people with needs, where we see you more regularly, you basically miss out on this whole section of helping people and so many people would say to me the one year check, I didn't really know what was normal. And I didn't really have realistic expectations about certain things. And so I thought, actually, I want to provide the information when people actually need it, rather than arrive sworn in at what one you check and say, Is your child able to do all these things? Because actually, if people knew about stuff, when it relevant, then they could be helping their child through it rather than feeling like it's a bit of a test that one year to see whether they can do things
that makes so much sense because they changed so much in the first year, don't they? Not only physically they get so much bigger, so so quickly, but also with all their what they do, it changes so much, doesn't it? So it makes so much sense to God. It's almost like a guide and a coaching way for parents, isn't it which I massively believe in. Because as a coach, I just love the concept of always learning and coaching. And no one teaches you how to be a good parent and what to do.
Absolutely. And I feel like people put so much pressure on themselves because as soon as their baby's born, you are always putting this pressure on thinking, Am I good enough? Am I doing enough for my child and things but actually, when you think about it, we don't have any teaching of how we're supposed to be mothering or parenting this child, we are completely new to this as well. And so just allowing us to kind of give ourselves a break and think actually, I'm learning here and that's okay. We don't have to pretend that we know everything. And I find that when people have these expectations on themselves, or society has these expectations. People don't really talk about stuff because they're scared of being judged as a bad mom, or they're scared of saying, Oh, well, maybe I feed my baby too much. Or maybe I'm doing this wrong or this wrong. They don't want to talk about it because they're scared of being judged. Whereas actually, we've never been taught that information. So how are we supposed to know what we're supposed to be doing?
Yeah, absolutely. And I feel really similar to you felt when I had my daughter and she's two and a half now. I had a similar experience. We've I had this expectation of how parenting would be with me and my partner. But then reality was very different. I didn't realise how much the baby would want me, and how the role that Ben could play was literally changing the nappy, it genuinely was that before that I've been like, no way is that going to be the case that he's going to be really doing everything. And we're going to be 5050 with everything, but it wasn't possible. And when you talk to them about the importance of dads and how they interact with their babies, like gave me goosebumps because I'm passionate about a lot of things. And one of those things is the male figure in a child's life and all of those things. It's just so important.
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, there was a study that came out in 2018 that showed that the importance of fathers in the child's life and how they can really help with cognitive and language and social development. Healthcare, I felt was really pushing towards involving dads much more in family life. Health, visitors were typically seen as women who come and help the woman actually were really trying to have a big push to be a family nurse. And then unfortunately, when COVID happened it we went completely backwards. Yeah. And I really felt for dads because they suddenly weren't allowed to come to the scans. They weren't allowed to go to a&e because we couldn't have two parents. So the mom was breastfeeding or there was a reason that the mom had to go in and the dad just had to go and sit in the car in the car park and the scans and things in pregnancy are literally one of the only ways that dads feel connected to the babies at that time. The female they know that they're pregnant and they start having that bond straightaway but That's find it much more difficult until the baby is born. And so going into those scans is one of the ways to help that bond start to start right from the beginning. And that was taken away. So we've got a whole load of work to do, again, now really involve dads and help them to feel important in their child's life, they're going through a massive transition as well, if they're feeling low, if they get any kind of mental health issues. In those first few years, it has a massive effect on everyone as well. You can't really look at one person independently. We're all a team. We're all gonna see each other in, in our household and in our lives. And so I think it's really, really short sighted to do that to dads really
pandemic. Definitely. And I experienced that firsthand because I had Mabel in the July 2020. And one I had a grave skanks. My tummy was so small, the whole way through her gross scan at the end that I had to go to on my own to, we tried to have a home birth, and then I was emergency rushed to the hospital, in the ambulance on my own going through the last stage of labour. That was awful. And Ben had to get in the car and somehow drive to the hospital knowing that we were both in potential danger. And he told me this hilarious story about how he got there, looked at whether to pay for parking. And he felt like he was standing staring at this parking thing for like, 10 minutes trying to read it because he was not he wasn't with it, because he was in this kind of state of adrenaline. And then he just thought, What am I doing and just ran and just left the park, it was like, I'll just pay a fine if I have to pay a fine. And three, I had a weigh in on the baby's weight is checked, I think it's maybe five days after they're born. And my daughter had lost 13% of her body weight, which has stayed with me and made me feel like the worst mom ever. But I was there on my own. And I had a breakdown, and I wasn't allowed him to come with me. So again, there's various levels of traumatic experiences that we both had to go through. But I had to go through on my own and he had to go through on his own. And it's doesn't do much for that kind of family unit at the start.
And I'm that it's so scary for you. Obviously, we're talking about it from the dads perspective, actually, from mom's perspective, as well. I've read lots of things in that time as well of people having to receive horrible news all by themselves. And as you say, they have to then relay the news back to their partners, whereas actually, they're trying to go through it themselves, you know, yeah, yeah. And it doesn't do anyone any good, does it. I mean, I know that Hindsight is a wonderful thing. And we were all during the pandemic about what was safe and things. But just putting those barriers up constantly, really means that we're now going to have to go back and work extra hard to build those bonds. And obviously, you're going to need to process all of those traumatic events and things as well that
I have a therapist. She, she's amazing. I didn't even mention the fact that we had Mabel in the evening, and then Ben had to go home, I had to stay in the hospital and he had to go home, he got to see her for like a couple of hours. And then he was only allowed to visit the next day for 45 minutes, and then he got shifted out. Again, I just think no one can explain to you what it feels like to become a parent until you do become a parent and the pressure it puts on to your relationship as a couple it changes so much. And I just think that you need to set up well, at the start to be able to thrive as a family unit. There was a lot of things during COVID. That didn't help that. But I know like me, you are massively into personal development and personal growth and seeing the positive and growing through what you go through. So I guess we just have to accept it, do the therapy and move forward.
Yes, absolutely. Definitely. Just talking about personal development journeys, when I left health is seeing so I left my Hellfest in post in the pandemic, mainly because of childcare. But also just because of mental health really, I felt like I couldn't be there for my children and do my job at the same time and couldn't juggle everything at the same time. And so something had to give basically, and I really felt like that was when my personal development journey started because I had a bit more time to actually start reading and also I really needed at that point, it was quite a low point in my life, I felt like and I started reading some of these books to just understand myself a bit more. And I feel like I've been on this big roller coaster of personal development since leaving healthiest thing just to bring myself back up again and to start developing more confidence and realising actually, there are messages that I have that can be heard from people I think with nursing and healthiest thing you just get used to basically people telling you what they need, and then you doing it and it kind of wears you down slowly, slowly, slowly in nursing especially, which is why when they do strikes and things like that it's such a big deal because no nobody wants to go on strike. Nobody wants to do that. And it is such a massive deal for nurses to then actually say Okay, it's time we can't go forward anymore. can't continue with this anymore. But anyway, the personal development side of things has really helped me reading loads of different books. understanding about myself my own self awareness. And that has really helped me in my entrepreneurial journey to move forward.
Yeah, definitely. I think it's a journey of self discovery, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah, I keep saying this at the moment, we have to remember that there's nothing wrong with us. We don't have to strive to be better all the time. But for me, it's about striving to be the best version of myself, for my family, for my business for my friends, and to find my version of joy in my life. Yeah,
I completely agree. It's basically coming to peace with yourself and knowing that it's okay to want things in your life, being really grateful for what you've got. But also thinking about what you want from your life and going for it because why not?
Yeah, and it doesn't have to be big things as well, because I think often we go to those materialistic things. But more and more I'm thinking about the feelings that I want to feel or like the small hobbies. We're going on date night, next week with some friends and we're going to play badminton. Now. I haven't played badminton for years. Just rebasing yourself in what you love, whether it is sport, or arts and crafts, or whatever it is you enjoy, and just making sure you're building that into your life and you're not just slogging your guts out and doing work and nothing else.
I completely agree. And I feel like when I became a mom, all of my spare time went on looking after children and making sure their needs were met, making sure our relationship was okay, making sure my friends were still my friends. I basically was giving everything to everyone. I think that was probably the point, you know, when I left his office thing to just realise, actually, I do need to just focus on me a little bit like who am I like you said, What are my hobbies? What do I enjoy? I didn't know if someone said to me, what do you do for fun, I'd be like, I don't know, I don't have any fun. In my own personal life, and I kind of see my friends and things that are which is fun. But stuff like badminton, I really used to like doing stuff like that. So actually starting off, I really felt like actually just starting off, what music do I like, really helpful, because then I would start listening to the music that I liked. So not the music that I listen to my husband and stuff like that, or listen to my children, but what music stuff like Link work to or music that I haven't listened to for 10 years, I put that out. And I really just start to feel like me again a little bit and just have this little spark again and think, Okay, I really enjoyed singing karaoke and things like that. So I want to hear that. And that really helped is little tiny things. I helped me to build myself up again, and then think, Okay, what do I like doing now? Okay, so I think could start prioritising my health a little bit more. So now I go to Pilates once a week. I really had to factor that in because it sounds ridiculous. But until then it felt selfish for me to be doing stuff. Because if I was doing stuff for me, then I wasn't doing stuff for everybody else. But then when she reached that point of burnout, then you realise actually, you can't continue like this things, I've got to change. And I do need to start prioritising me, and then you can get back to going again, you know, I feel much calmer and much happier around my children, because I've actually got the mental capacity to give them time and patience. Whereas before, I was just frustrated all the time.
Yeah. I mean, there is so much with what you've just said, Honestly, I think you're talking about that loss of identity when you become a mom. And I remember someone saying to me, Oh, it took me 18 months, or maybe even two years to get back to myself. But after having a child and I was like, what that's, that's man, I feel like I'm two and a half years in now. And I completely understand that. And I do think it's only in the last six to nine months that I've started. Those kinds of hobbies properly. I understand what you say about the Pilates class, because I'm the same. I've just started netball on a Monday night. And I was saying to my mum yesterday, I left at the last minute to get there. And I quickly left after the match to get home. Why am I doing this, even when I've decided to do something for myself, I'm not hanging around and having a chat with people before or after because I'm pressured and sort of saying this because I need to learn from it. And I need to give myself more space and let's not be in a rush anymore. This is time for me. And there's no pressure to get home. But I think it's those boundaries. Like we need to put those boundaries in place to enable us to do the thing. And then when we're doing the thing we need to be present at the thing and not just thinking about getting home.
Absolutely. I completely agree. And I spoke to my husband recently about this because if he goes and does something like he plays golf on a Saturday morning, he rushed back, he will play golf and then if he happens to stick around for a pint afterwards, then he'll do that and then he'll come home and I spoke to him and said, you know you never feel like you have to rush home do you? And he was like Well, no, obviously I don't say out all day or anything. You In the same way, always thinking, I've got to get home, I've got to get home. And I think that that really comes from the guilt of doing stuff. He knows that by playing golf, he gets out and goes out and plays really early in the morning, basically, so that he can still spend the day with us from the afternoon. And he sees that as his therapy goes on, walk miles and miles and miles, he has time to think he has, he basically sort of sets up his mind for the week by doing that. And so he sees that as a positive that he is then available for the rest of us for the whole week. And he said to me, I never told you to rush home, I've never told you to that you need to come home as quick as possible, because I can't handle the situation. That's all. That's all kind of in your head. And I was like it is in my head. Yeah. Because I feel like an expectation that I have to be at home, it's my role to be looking after the children. And actually, he is extremely capable of, of doing that by himself. And in fact, it's good for the children to be spending the time with him and getting different experiences. It's the same with my parents or my husband's parents look after the children for a day, I am absolutely wracked with guilt, that we happen to be doing something without the children. And actually, the children are getting an amazing experience there because they are playing out in their garden, the grandparents are talking to them about different things I will necessarily talk to them about, they're getting a whole new perspective and a whole different experience and that our children need that. So it's me that has to work on a feel and everyone else is fine. Everyone else is having a great time. So to just kind of unpack that and realise that actually, it's okay to let go. We're not a failing by letting our children have a great experience of other people. They don't need us every single second.
Yeah. And it does make us a bit of parents. And this goes for the dads This goes for the mums wherever you may be, then took my daughter out to his friends, and they've got kids on Sunday. And I was like, oh my goodness, I've got a house myself and never happens. And it was so wonderful. And then when I was with my daughter, again, it was this magical. Like I've missed her and I felt like such a better mum for it. And but I know how it feels on the on the other side of that where you just don't ever want to be apart from them. So it's just has to be a slow process, a gradual process. Okay, so let's get into actually before we can do that, I do want to say one more thing. You talked about your Pilates and your music, the blink 182 stuff in particular, because I love I love that. And we were actually watching a 90s playlist on YouTube, it was like the one hit wonder 90 songs that you'd you'd forgotten about. But they were brilliant. And there was some cracking songs on there. But something I read before was about what you loved as a child, you will still love now. But when we become an adult, we forget these things. So whether it's the hobbies that we loved, when we were younger, or whether it's the music we loved, or whatever it is trying to rediscover that is so powerful. I think you use the word spark, and I think that's so true. It brings your spark perhaps salutely.
And a lot of the time when you're an adult you really forget what you enjoy doing. Having that as your first port of call just thinking about what did I like when I was little can really then help you to remember what you enjoy. I think that when you're an adult you get lost in everything else, don't you everything goes to low priority for you. But just thinking about what did I like when I was little did I like gymnastics, or actually I didn't. But I did always stuff when I was little that I really enjoyed that then I kind of gave up. In fact, one example for me is the piano. So I learned a piano for years and years. And then I gave up at around 16 or something like that. And we recently got a piano again. So when I have a bit of time now I will just go and sit on the piano and just try and remember how to play Backstreet Boys. Oh, you know, get my Michael Jackson book out and have a little play and it really just helps me to relax now it helps me to clear my mind. And and it's just really nice having that space to do that the children don't mind they were they love it actually, they will either sit and watch me and start pressing all the keys. Or they will be doing something else with Nick in the other room. So you can involve them as well a little bit, even though it's a bit annoying. You're trying to concentrate and they're playing all the keys. But just remembering as you said, what you really love doing when you were little can really help to reinvent yourself again.
Absolutely. So if you are listening, I would say stop the podcast and write yourself a list of five to 10 things that you loved when you were little and just do that little bit of exploration and see if you can bring them back into your life because it is magic. So let's move on to the parenting because you are the expert on this. And you just touched on role modelling a little bit because you were talking about playing your piano and how by your daughter seeing you do that you're role modelling the fact that it's important for you to have hobbies and you'd have time to yourself or when you're going to Pilates class. So just talk to me about Parenting, what can we do as families in the home as moms as dads to make the biggest difference to our children, in your opinion,
obviously, it depends on age really, but I kind of specialise in I'm planning to fives, really. So I think when they're really young babies, there's lots of studies that point to just the most important thing that you can do for improving your bond, improving your relationship. And also supporting your baby's development is something called turn taking. And it's basically when you speak to your baby, or you look at them, and have that interaction with them. And then you wait for them to be able to show some kind of interaction back with you. So even when they're a newborn, if you stick out your tongue to them, Go nice and close, stick out your tongue, they will take a few seconds, but they will copy. And I feel like that is such a big moment because we realised actually they are really intensely watching everything that you do. And yeah, they can't copy other stuff that you do, they can't talk to you and things like that, but they can copy your gestures. And lots of research shows that basically having those turn taking moments is really special. And it really, really improves your your bond. And as I said, their brain development because they are understanding that you are responding to them. And they are responding to you. And it's massive.
And what are some other examples? Could it be like you making little noises? And they might make some noises back?
Yeah, absolutely. So it continued right up to when they're five and beyond basically. So depending on the age, as you say, so when they can talk or when they can start babbling, if they do a little bubble, and you copy it, and then they'll copy it back again. And then you copy it back. Again, it's real early stages of conversation. And also small little thing, if you smile at them, and they smile at you, or they point at something and you look to see what they're pointing to and either get it for them. Or if it's a bird or an ant or something like that, then you point to it as well and you start talking about it, they will kind of have a little reaction as well, it's not always obvious that they're going to have this reaction. But if you can just wait just a little bit longer than is comfortable, then they will have yet they normally have a reaction, whether that is a squeal or kicking the foot or a smile or some kind of way that they want to show response to you. And then that is Yeah, absolutely the first basic layers of conversational skills. And then once they do learn words, then they learn how to have that conversation, they change it up for words, and then you respond back with words, and then you kind of go from there. Yeah, it's really important for us a building that relationship and understanding social development, really, it's how we respond to each other and how we relate to each other. And having secure attachment. They understand that when they have a need, or when they have when they express something in their own way that you understand and that you will respond back to them. And then that can help them to feel safe, and know that there is someone in the world who understands them and that they are important because they exist. It is really kind of sad, but it helps them to know that they are important in your life. When you respond to them.
Yeah, literally just making them feel really valued, isn't it? Which we all want? Like, I want that as an adult? Exactly.
Yeah, we all need it. We all we still need it as we're growing up. And we need to feel listened to we need to feel like we're understood. And that's all babies want as well. It has lots of roots in self esteem, and how we feel about ourselves when we know that we are understood and that we are valued and loved
by other people. Yeah, absolutely. I love that absolutely love. And the other things
that I was gonna say about things that you can do at home are just keeping close to your baby. And when they were really, really young. And I know that it's so difficult because basically, we all kind of want to rush the baby phase where the baby wants to be sort of attached to you all time. But from a from a brain development point of view, it is absolutely so great for them to be close to their caregiver and to be nice and warm. And it helps with their whole physiological state. It helps them to keep current, it helps them to have nice calm hormones going through their body. And even though it can be frustrating us that's why a sling is really helpful at that time because you can put them in the sling or the baby carrier and then carry on doing things with your daily life. So you can keep them close, then it's a really lovely thing to do or improving your bond but also for their development.
Yeah, I remember the day that Ben put the sling on and it was just brilliant. And I loved that. I think it's so important for dads and moms to do that.
Yeah, my husband. I taught him pretty quickly how to use the baby carrier because I really loved it. And he wanted to be part of our baby's life. He wanted to help as much as possible and it was something that he could do. And I think that it was I don't know it was quite brave of him probably because If we had a bright pink slip, and it was a bright pink one, and I love wearing really bright colours, so I was like, I'm gonna get this bright pink slim. And then I realised I actually probably could have joined them on that maybe he would have liked as well to where he could have had it. But he didn't even care because a lot of the time, he would have like his coat sort of over half. But anyway, it doesn't really matter what colour it is, does it but yeah, he loves it. He loved it. He he felt he felt valued. He felt he felt like he was playing a really important part when he could carry the baby around in the baby carrier. And I think he secretly probably likes a bit of the attention as well. But
oh, yeah, seeing a man with a baby in a sling in the park for me, was really beautiful.
It was great.
Love it. And what about as your children get a little bit older, I don't know, we have the two year old phase that everyone kind of talks a lot about. And then I know as they get to five in school, so things change a bit. But if you've got a view on that, like maybe that two year old point, and maybe that getting towards five year old point, and what's important.
So obviously, between two and five, there is massive changes in feelings, lots and lots of big emotions come out. And this is where the thing about terrible twos comes in, because I really hate to hate that. But yeah. When you kind of label a child, or you're gonna feel the terrible twos, it's gonna be a hard year, what's the point of saying, because actually, it's not, it's not, there's points that are going to be hard. But actually, there are points that were hard before. And then there's different challenges that change as the child grows, so one thing gets easier, and then you kind of tackle the next issue and the next and the next. So there's lots of emotions going on all the time. And that is just because the higher brain hasn't quite figured out how to help them to calm down yet and help to rationalise and sort of regulate themselves. And so this is a really important time in sort of terms of brain development, where parents really need to have that patience and kind of figure out what is going on. Like, why do they feel like this, what feeling is it that they have, which is causing the behaviour that they're doing, and just empathising with them through it is so important, and it's easier said than done. But this is why I think parents at this time also need to make sure that they have someone that they can talk to about their own feelings, so that they can basically vent to somebody else, or just process what they're going through and getting that off their chests. So that then they have the space to have the patience and the capacity basically, to be there for their child and to be patient and calm for them. If you can be like a mirror for your child at this time. So if they have like full of rage and Phil have always big emotions, and you are basically being the person that you want them to be, if you go in there with like real calm, real understanding and acceptance, then it's hard for them to carry on being absolutely full of rage when someone has been super calming to them, and just letting them express themselves. If that makes sense.
It does. It doesn't I have experienced it lots there's been moments where I have absolutely lost it and been really angry. Alongside where my daughter is not happy. But what I have tried to do is take few deep breaths or maybe ask Ben to get involved if I feel like I can't possibly conduct myself but if I can try and calm down and be that calm person and sit next to her. Say okay, you look like you're sad right now, mommy's here for you and not try. And I think it's something in the book club, wasn't it? It was a feel free the problem instead of deal with the problem. And that's stuck with me actually that phrase, because it is definitely a better outcome when you are the calm one. And you're you've got this, and I've had my mom say to me, Wow, you're so patient with her. And I'm like, I really don't think I am. But it's all a process. It's all a learning. But I definitely understand how that perspective and that advice is definitely helpful, like just trying to take some breaths yourself. And I even say to my daughter sometimes, like, let's take 10 breaths together or five breaths together. She's so funny. She's like, it's really pretty cute. It does help though.
Yeah, absolutely. And I also feel that, you know, we have to be realistic. You said that sometimes you get angry and stuff like that. When I do that. Sometimes it's unrealistic to be like, I'm going to be this person all the time. And that's something that we need to talk about. Because you end up snapping at your child and you feel really guilty like, oh, no, have I messed up everything that I've been teaching her about calm and things like that? Well, no, you haven't. And it's gonna happen sometimes where we do lose her right? But if we can, as you said, Do what you've done, and basically just try it as much as possible to go in with that kind of calm mirror effect, then that is going to do amazing things for our child and for our relationship and things. There's something in it's in the Philippine parent book that we've just done, but there's also it was also in this era grossmith book that we did a few months ago about repair and rupture. and I really liked it because it was basically saying, in those times that you do shout, you do lose it with your child, it's okay. Because the most important thing that you can do afterwards is not to feel wracked with guilt. And then let yourself be tormented, basically, because it's thinking that you're a bad mom. And the most important thing that you can do is to repair your relationship. So as long as you make sure that you repair it, it's okay. So you haven't ruined your child, you haven't messed up everything like that. You can go in and apologise to them actually feel it and say, Mommy felt very frustrated at that time. And I shouldn't have shouted, and it's amazing how accepting the child is, a lot of the time, I would go in and apologise and get really emotional and be like, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. And I'm just like, it's okay. Can we play with whatever now? And I was like, No, I really needed to feel my apology. And I didn't know. But the point is, is that by you apologising and you feeling sorry, it makes you realise that that's not what you want to do. Again, you know, when you're in that situation, again, it helps you to think I don't want to snap because I felt so bad last time, it puts things into perspective and heals your relationship, if you just carry on chatting at them each time. And you never apologise, you never admit that actually, you shouldn't have done that, then your child's going to learn that you're pretty scary when you get angry. And that that's just the way things are and that they shouldn't do things to upset you because
it makes total sense. And I think what you said about as an adult having someone else to talk to so I think that is really important. So whether it's a friend or a parent or your partner, if you've got a partner, and I think every time we have a altercation or something that happens with our daughter, I want to debrief on it, like I want to debrief it, I want to understand, like what happened there? What was that triggered by and I think it is like a mini therapy. And I definitely think that's important.
Yeah, definitely debriefing is great word. Don't have a friend or a partner or family member that you can debrief to, then that's also what helped us to so therefore, it's also health professionals. So help visitors have a whole thing called listening visits, where you can have four weekly visits over an hour where you basically just vent at them. Because it's really important that you have that person to contain your feelings for you. Because it's not about them trying to sort it out for you or them judging you on it or them saying, Well, maybe you should have done this. It's just someone listening and letting you talk basically, and you get things out. And then by doing that you are then processing and rationalising as you're going. So if you don't have anyone else to do it to or you don't want to do it to your close family members, then get in touch with the health minister and say that you want some listening visits, because you really need somebody to talk to and that is service the whole of UK.
Super, that is amazing advice. Thank you. Okay, so I want to ask you a little bit about the juggle, and how you manage that juggle with entrepreneur life and parenting. And as part of that, I also want to ask you about your business and just where you see your business going.
So obviously, I always have to be prioritising my children, really, my husband is the main owner of the family. So he has the priority in terms of working and bringing that money in. And so obviously, it's going to depend on different families and different situations and things like that. But when I set up the business, I needed it to work around childcare, basically. So my youngest was still in preschool. I think she went two days a week at that point. So I had two days a week to work on the business. And then the other days, she was the priority, basically, because I was looking after her and things. Obviously that then kind of seeped into it a little bit. So while she was having a nap, or while she was having some downtime in front of the telly or something, I would be doing some business stuff. And then my aim was always when she started school in September. So she has just started school September just gone. Oh, then I did have all this time, always time to work on the business. But actually nine till three, and by the time I get in it's quarter past nine. And then I had to go and collect them at quarter to three, not that much time every day to be squeezing all of this stuff in. So everything's about prioritising, right, so I wanted to work on the business, I wanted to make sure that it was a success and get the foundation right off the business. So I chose to then after they go to bed at seven o'clock or hyper seven, I would normally just spend a few hours working on whatever I could in order to set myself up for the next day so that I can make that as productive as possible. But, you know, sometimes we aren't productive. And that's okay, too. I know that actually you spoke to Stef Granger about this on one of your previous podcasts about how productivity kind of comes in ebbs and flows. And it's okay to listen to your body sometimes and not always be pushing against what your body wants. So sometimes I'll feel super motivated and other times I will just Basically procrastinate for three hours. Luckily, I could have done loads of other stuff around the kitchen. But I was really stubborn and like, No, I have to do work. Whereas sometimes your body just wants to do other things. You know, you sometimes just have to listen to your body and go with that and catch up on the days that you do feel more motivated. So
yeah, that is so so true. Definitely. When you're in the flow, and the vibe, it all happens easily. And sometimes you're battling it, aren't you? Where do you see the mindful parenting company and parenting book club? Let's say like three years time, five years time, what's your big kind of mission with it?
So that is an excellent question. I still feel like there is a big gap in support for new families between probably in the first two years, really. So I would like to try to fill that gap, but in a way that parents actually want it. And it's actually really useful for them. Because I feel like there's so much noise, like when you become a new parent, there's lots of like, stuff that you can buy loads of people are trying to sell different things to you. And I really want to be a resource that is actually really useful for people that they find that really helped them through a really difficult transition, I will still always have the boxes as well, like, I really love the boxes, and we have like a really great loyal subscriber memberships. So that's really great. They seem to really love those. So I will always keep those. But I think that I will definitely try to go into some more kind of digital courses as well. Things that people can access when they really need it so that they can be that trawling through a whole book in order to find the answer for how do I help my baby with teething? Or how do I do specific things I just want answers to straightaway. So I definitely go into courses a bit more, I would also like to help parents with babies that are premature a bit more. Because I think that when you have premature baby, you go into this at a state of shock. And it's this whole new world that you've suddenly plunged into, I feel like there could be a lot more support around parents with premature babies as well, just to help them go through Wow, they've like accepting what's happening and learning about what they need to learn about. So I think they'll probably branch into that as well. Lots of different things.
I love that sounds amazing.
I basically just trying to see where there's a need, see where people need extra support, and help them through that time. That's what I want. And because ultimately, it's not really about the parents, which is why I'm trying to help everybody is it's to help the next generation is to help children have optimal brain development. And the only way to do that is by helping their parents understand how to help them, basically, and how to support them and helping their parents to process what they went through in their own childhood in order to not kind of carry that with them. So ultimately, it's all to help the children kind of going forward for the next generation. And that sounds cheesy, but
it's not cheesy at all. I feel like that's a whole nother topic, isn't it talking about us as parents and what we've gone through and how that could be something that we bring into our parenting or most likely is and how we kind of grow through that.
Um, parent and then parent?
Yeah, exactly. Okay, we definitely don't have time for that.
Don't talk about that, because we will be here for another hour.
Exactly, exactly. Okay, so what we're gonna do is we're going to wrap up, but I have literally loved this conversation so much. We've talked about so many things. But before we finish, I'd love to ask if you can give your three top tips for our listeners, I know you've given loads of advice, but if you just had to, you can either summarise what you've just said, or just what your three top tips would be. And then I'll ask you to as to share your socials, your websites and how people can work with you or get more Katie in their lives.
So my top three tips in parenting would be to introduce turn taking from really young age, basically, responding to your baby and understanding their response. And then responding back to them. Again, it's so important and loads different ways. Babies don't need loads of toys, they don't need loads of stuff all the time to develop well. And to play with really, all they need is someone to be really close to them to be able to use their imagination and to have that time to kind of build the relationship. So that's way more important than toys. Yeah,
wooden spoons are great, right? spoons, not anything else.
Just a drop in the activities I have in the boxes in my monkey boxes. They are mostly completely based on stuff that you've got around the house already. So you don't need to go and buy loads of different sensory stuff. You can just use stuff around your house or just you or things that you already have. There are a place for toys when I get a bit older, but when they're really young, there's not that much benefit to them. Really. The final point is that your team and this is not like a battle between who's got the control and who's winning and things like that your team and your We're all trying to learn from each other, you're trying to learn from your child, your child is learning from you, and you're learning about yourself and your child is learning about themselves. You're all a team. And it doesn't have to be a battle. Remember that? And the times that they're really testing and kind of thing, how can I act as a team member rather than enforcing control and making this about who is right?
Oh, my goodness, that resonates with me so much. I've had moments where I've tried to force Mabel into her pram the other day, she would have wanted her rabbits so much. And she'd left her at home. And I was out of principle, like, No, I'm not going back to get it. And I think compromise is something that I've been learning as a parent and not to always like you say, Be the one in control that says no, but to be okay with giving in if you like, we see it as giving in, but actually being okay with it, I that really resonates with me,
I think it really comes from how we were parented, basically, that comes into it a lot. Because our parents generation, we're kind of told not to spoil a child not to give in not to let them have too much control. Otherwise, they'll control you, and they'll rule the roost. But actually, there's so much evidence now kind of pointing to actually it's better as a team compromise. Sometimes it's okay to just say yes, even though can't necessarily be bothered to go to the park for five minutes or something. Sometimes it's just about thinking about actually, yeah, why not? Let's just do it. Yeah. And so yeah, finding that compromise. And that balance, I think, is super important. Yeah. And I
think for us, it looks like when my daughter has been old enough to trying to problem solve together. And if she's not happy with something saying, okay, so what are our options and talking them through and then saying, Oh, how about this option, which is like a middling option. And that's been really, really good. I think it doesn't always work. We absolutely have those ridiculously challenging moments where you just want to give up, but I do think that helps.
I think that yeah, what you said absolutely fantastic, because it helps everybody as well. It's not just about it always being about us, or always being about the child helps everyone when you try and help themselves like that, because she's kind of learning. What are my options here? Okay, I don't need to panic about this situation, I can just try to think about it and think, What are my options, and let's go with the best one. And you because you're not having to enforce control and feeling guilty. And you're basically you're nurturing her to help make her own decisions, which is absolutely amazing.
Thank you. I mean, you are the expert here, but I'm all about that practical advice is so hard as a parent, isn't it? So I really hope that people have taken away, I'm thinking might have taken a lot away from this conversation. And I have definitely and the thing I love about your book club now you're going to talk about in a minute is it is affirming. There's lots of stuff that I'm learning, but there's also stuff that I'm like, Oh, wow, that's something I'm doing. Right? Yeah, you there's a when there's one thing that I can say, Ben, we did this without knowing that it was the right thing to do. And it was it was right. And not that there is a right and wrong necessarily when it comes to parenting. But I love the fact that it is not just teaching me new stuff, but it's also reiterating stuff that makes me feel good as a parent. Does that make sense?
Absolutely. Yeah. And a lot of that stuff is just kind of gut instinct, isn't it? We want to be sort of kind of nurturing to our child. And then perhaps you'd like reading other stuff that actually No, you shouldn't be doing this, or you get all conflicted advice all the time. But if you can just go with your gut, then you generally can't go wrong.
Yeah, you're so right. I do think gut instinct has a massive role to play and we ignore it a lot. Because we're listening to everything else. But actually getting back in touch with your intuition is definitely a good thing as a parent. Okay, so can you as we wrap up, just share your website, your social, just a little bit about your book club and your boxes, because I know you can gift those as well, can't you to people?
Yes, absolutely. So the boxes go from newborn to 24 months, each month to receive information, activities, and book and a little toy and a wellbeing gift for the parents. That's really based on that month, that's how old your child is. So for example, if they're three months, then you get a three month box. And it completely talks about what they're going through at three months activities to kind of support them and things. So it's very focused on their particular age and kind of the general skills that they're learning at that age. So you can absolutely either subscribe to them by yourself, or you can buy them for somebody else, or ask someone that's fun for you. Then you can get them as like a three month subscription, or a 12 month subscription, whatever you like, really. So we have got the boxes. And then we also have got our book club, which is an online parenting book club, where we read parenting books. The premise of the book club is that I know that most parents don't have time to read parenting books. But there's so much information in there. It's great at that time. So basically, I will read the book for you. So we'll all vote on a book. I'll read the book for you. And then I'll give you little summaries each week of all the important points from the book. Obviously, you're really welcome to read it as well.
But you're the hard work yeah.
Exactly, I'm happy to read it for you and let you know little tiny snippets of it to get all the good bits out of the book, basically, can I do that for the Facebook?
Yeah. And it's amazing, I know you do do a month for free for new members.
That is correct. If you use the code one month three in the checkout, then you get the first month free, so that you can be a part of the community, figure out whether you like the book club, hopefully you will love it, and then continue with us and help to choose the books in the future then, because
I know you read the book hunter gatherer parents, and I was quite interested in that. So I went back and had a listen to some of those episodes. So there's Everything's in there. Yes, isn't it, which is brilliant?
Yeah. So everything will always stay in there. Whenever you join, you can always look back at other previous books, if you're interested in those, we built them all by hashtags. Once you kind of click on the hashtag, then you see everything that is related to that book, and so that you've got your section, all that information, so you can get all the the summary and all those books. So we've been going since November. So it's relatively young still, but it's growing and evolving. And I really want to keep offering that service to people.
Absolutely. And it's for parents and kids up to five, isn't it? And I know, I've definitely got loads out of it. And it's almost like a starting point on your mission, isn't it to help in those first few years of a child's life. So it's just amazing.
Absolutely. Anyone's welcome to join, you know, grandparents or even if you haven't got children, and you're just childcare workers, I will kind of research and relate a lot of things I talk about in the book club to parents with children under five years old, because that's my specialist area. Absolutely.
Yeah, no, that's amazing. So I'm gonna get you to send me all those links and that code, if that's okay, and I'll put that all in the show notes so people can have a look. Amazing. Thank you so much, Katie, for all of the knowledge and all of
your expertise. But it's, it's quite okay.
We've covered stuff about parenting. And we've talked about the business juggle. I'd love talking about the father figure and the dads in the world, because I just think that there's such a big role there. And I love the sound of your mission of really making an impact on that next generation. I know it might sound cheesy, but it is important. All right. Well, thank you so much, and I will speak to you soon. Perfect. Thanks, Jen. Thanks, Katie. Thank you so much for listening to The Jen Lister Podcast. I truly appreciate every single one of you. If you'd like to leave me a review on your podcast app, I would love that. And if you'd like to follow me on social media, it's @jenlistercoaching on Instagram and LinkedIn