Lorna & The Gram talks social media struggles, plus how to make sales & have a strategy when it comes to social media

In this episode I have the pleasure of hosting Lorna Taylor, the Instagram marketing expert from Lorna & The Gram. If you're looking to enhance your Instagram presence, this episode is a goldmine of insights. Lorna specialises in helping female entrepreneurs create authentic content and establish a strong online presence. She shares her journey from being a primary school teacher to becoming a successful entrepreneur.

During our conversation, Lorna delves into the common challenges people face on Instagram and social media. She addresses two key areas: individuals who recognise the importance of using social media but struggle to enjoy it, and those who have valuable content to share but fear putting themselves out there. Lorna offers practical tips to overcome these obstacles, including effective planning, and workflow management.

When it comes to content frequency, Lorna advises that there isn't a one-size-fits-all approach. The ideal number of posts, reels, and stories varies for each person. 

Lorna generously shares her top three tips for Instagram success. First, she encourages busy entrepreneurs to schedule dedicated time each week for engaging with their audience. This intentional interaction can make a significant impact on building relationships and generating sales. 

Second, Lorna advocates for actively participating on Instagram rather than passively scrolling. Taking the initiative to comment, reply, and initiate conversations can lead to more meaningful connections. 

Lastly, she reminds us not to let the engagement on a single post define our self-worth or the success of our business. Lorna emphasises that follower count and likes do not directly determine income or overall achievement.

You can find Lorna on Instagram @lorna.and.the.gram
Website www.lornaandthegram.co.uk

Follow me on social media, it's @jenlistercoaching on Instagram and LinkedIn.

My website is Jenlister.com

Click here to get my 7 mindset steps to starting or scaling your business

Music and production by the amazing Strike Productions

Podcast management by Dean at DBVirtual 

Transcript

Jennie Lister  0:04  
Hello, and welcome to the journalist, a podcast. Here I'll be chatting about life, business growth strategies and sharing my personal journeys along the way. I will also be interviewing some incredible guests who are experts in their field. See it as my little black book of business. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the journalists podcast. I am really excited to have here today, Lorna Taylor from Lorna and the gramme. So Lorna is an Instagram marketing expert, which I just think is amazing. We all spend a lot of time and energy on Instagram. So I've got someone is really going to be useful for you to hear from today. I know Lorna, you work with female entrepreneurs, and you help them create content show up authentically as themselves on their social medias. And obviously, you've got your glow up membership as well.

Lorna Taylor  0:58  
Yes, hi, thanks for having me, Jen. So I mainly work with women or business owners just to help them with their content creation, mainly on Instagram. But obviously content can be used anywhere, and just helping them to get more visible. And you know, put their story put their message out there. Because until people know who you are know about you, they can't build a relationship with you. And then they can't get help from from you. So the first step is always visibility.

Jennie Lister  1:31  
Absolutely, absolutely. So what made you want to do this and want to help people with this,

Speaker 2  1:36  
I say that I fell into it by accident. So I used to be a primary teacher. Wow. So I did that for six years that was like trained for that that was gonna be my career. And then, as so many is it happens to so many women, kids came along. And priorities really, really changed. I found it really difficult to juggle, even part time, work with having two young kids same time, and just so many things. I said, That's not working, that's not working. Like, I feel guilty for being at work and not being at home, I feel guilty for being at home and not being at work. We were in a position where I could step back for a little while and just say, you know, spend time with the boys while they're little. And then I could always go back into teaching further down the line, because there's always a demand for teachers. Absolutely. That was the plan. But I think deep down in my head, I was like, once I leave, I don't think I'm gonna go back. I don't think it's gonna be the right fit for me anymore. And so I just tried lots of different things. There's lots of us do, you know, you're looking for alternatives, but you want it to be flexible working. I started tutoring, I started doing some exam marking and I started doing network marketing stuff. And I kind of just fell into content creation. So I had a couple of different Instagram accounts, I had like, the personal like for my own use, and a few sort of hobby things that I would share. I just really got a lot of traction with the stuff that I was sharing. And I was like, but it's I felt like it was very easy. It came easy to me to make these kinds of videos or take these kinds of pictures. And then to spend some time talking to the people that liked them. I thought that was very natural and very easy for me. It's only when sort of maybe like, a year or two down the line. The boys were starting school. And I was thinking okay, well, I don't really want to go back to teaching but I need to find something that I need to do I need to bring in some money. And I was like, Is there any scope in me doing something with Instagram? Because I used to just say to people Instagrams, my hobby, I just like spending time on there chatting to people making stuff on there. But can you turn that kind of a hobby into a thing? It turns out, you can you can turn pretty much any hobby into a thing. So I found some people who were doing similar stuff, I found people who had started businesses that were in similar positions to me. And so just kind of went for it.

Jennie Lister  4:00  
Wow. And do you remember your first client? Because I think that's always quite a magical thing. Because you go I just fell into it. But actually, there was a point where it became something you were making money from?

Speaker 2  4:11  
Yes, I do. So the first person that booked a one to one with me, is actually someone who I know really, really well now, but she was like a head of like a networking group near me. And she was like, love, I'd love for you to come and help me sort out my Instagram. I live really near you. So can we do it in person. And I was like, amazing. The first one will do a one to one in person. And I was so like, in my head. I was like, oh my god, I'm being paid for this. Oh my god, I'm being paid for this. I just want you to like over deliver. And we spent three hours we spent the whole morning she'd only booked in for one hour. But we'd spent the whole morning and I was going through loads of ideas and mapping stuff out and changing things. And she was like I think I think we need to go now. This is amazing that somebody could pay Before this, and I just really enjoy helping you and giving you all the stuff. So then I was like, Well, I can't do three hours every time someone wants to work with me. But that was that that was the very first one.

Jennie Lister  5:12  
I love that story that you shared. And I love that you remember it and remember it so fondly, because they'll always stay close to your heart, those first clients that worked with you,

Speaker 2  5:20  
yeah, and I've got a picture of it somewhere because we got milkshakes at the same time. So every time I see that picture, or I have a milkshake, now it kind of like takes me back to that time. It's nice.

Jennie Lister  5:30  
I love salutely. Love it. I think that's a really important story to share. Because so many people don't know where to start with a business and see people like you on social media and go, I could never be like her because I know, I felt like that when I was thinking about going into what I go, what I do with coaching, I've seen other coaches and going, I can do that. And I think it's so important to honour that journey and know we've started somewhere.

Speaker 2  5:53  
Yeah, and I know, you know, everyone says, oh, it's it's all about the journey. But the way it kind of, I sort of said it to myself was okay, so that person's doing that over there. And that's amazing. I can't do that yet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That doesn't mean I can't do it next year or in 10 years. But I can't do that right now. I can't do that yet. When I thought about it in terms of I can't do that yet. That meant well, I can still do some bits now. But and then I'll build up to it. And it just made it seem less daunting and less far away. Because I would get there at some point.

Jennie Lister  6:33  
Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. So I really want to ask you a question about what people come to you for. So what do you find people struggle with most on Instagram and social media and content creation? And why do they come to you,

Speaker 2  6:48  
it mainly falls into two areas, I would say, either, they know they need to use it. But they don't particularly enjoy it. And so it turns into a chore. And they want to just know how to get it done quickly and get it out there and get it done. So they can move on to other stuff, which I can help them with in terms of planning and their workflow. And saving time is a business thing that needs to get done. So yeah, we can, we can absolutely do that. And then the other half is like people that know they should do it and know they have things to say things to share. But they're scared of putting themselves out there. And that's a bit harder for me to help with because I feel like that is actually more coaching. And that is a little bit more of the sort of inner work before people are ready to be visible. Yeah. And so I feel like it feels like it falls into those two things. I mean, I help as much as I can. But I do feel like that kind of stuff is a bit more inner work rather than the strategy.

Jennie Lister  7:59  
Yeah, it's more kind of confidence and mindset, coaching that side of things at the

Speaker 2  8:04  
beginning of anything, you're not going to have a lot of, you're not going to have a lot of confidence in stuff that's brand new, you're not going to, you know, feel like showing up and shouting about everything when everything is so new, and you really don't feel like you maybe know what you're doing. But if you never take the first step in putting a post out or sharing a photo, if you never put the first thing out there, you've got nothing to build on. We're just leaving it in your drafts or you know, saving it for another day, stops you getting more visible and stops you from practising and learning about what you like sharing what people like want to hear from you. It just delays that process. And once people have got going, and what they say to me is, I wish I'd done this sooner. I wish I'd have started this months ago, or done this earlier, because I would have been a lot further down the line.

Jennie Lister  9:05  
And I think that's a really good point about figuring out what you'd like to share because I hear a lot of people go oh, I don't know if I want to share my kids on social media or I don't know if I want to share, like my personal life or just my business or my face even so what do you say to your clients? Do you have a different spectrum of clients that just do all sorts of different things and figure out what feels good for them? Yeah, I

Speaker 2  9:27  
do have some that don't want to be the face of their business or their brand. I do find that is trickier to work with. Yeah, in terms of like making connections with people. If you're in like the coaching space, for instance, but you don't want to be in any of the videos or share any images. It's going to be difficult for people to feel like they are getting to know you and trust you if they never see any of you. I feel like that's you know, there's a there's a block there. But if you were a different kind of company, like you, you know, ran a family restaurant or something you didn't, you don't need to be like front and centre, it's a little bit more of the whole business. So I guess it depends on what your, what your business is. Either way, sharing things that are more not personal, because everyone goes, Oh, well, I don't want to share all my deep, dark secrets, and you know, me, like naked on holiday or anything like that. But I just mean, like, outside of business, what are the things that going on in your life, because your whole life isn't your business where it definitely shouldn't be? Like your friends, or your families, your hobbies, or your downtime and your pets, and where you travel and food you eat. That kind of stuff. Although it's not directly related to the thing that you sell, it's helping people get to know you, like you and trust you. And that bit has to happen before the sales bit. So kind of in that process, you can't just show up and say, Here's my thing, come buy it without showing people, reasons why they know you like you trust you. And then they're in a position to buy your thing.

Jennie Lister  11:17  
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a really good point, like, you've got to have that like initial connection. But equally, you don't necessarily have to show everything

Speaker 2  11:28  
you don't have to do, there's lots of people that don't want to show pictures of their kids or don't post on weekends, like I very rarely post on weekends because of that boundary. You don't have to. But that doesn't mean you can't talk about your family and say you're a mom, I know lots of people who run their own businesses because of their like health conditions or other commitments that they have. That doesn't mean you need to talk about that all of the time and share loads of stuff about it. But it also doesn't mean you need to hide it. So there's a way that we can still include it in your sort of messaging, like what people know you for, without having to share everything about it.

Jennie Lister  12:08  
Yeah. And I think suddenly, that I've noticed is, the more vulnerable you are, the more response you get sometimes, and I do find social media can be frustrating, because it always feels like everyone's perfect lives and perfect days. But actually, the reality isn't always like that. So it's quite refreshing. I think when you hear people being vulnerable and sharing different things.

Speaker 2  12:29  
Oh, wonderful thing. I think we're so past the filtered, fake, you know, perfectly curated Insta life thing, we've lost that now. And, you know, we will try to run our businesses and connect with people during a pandemic, when there's whole loads of stuff going on. Like that is real life trying to juggle everything when we're all locked in our houses. And I think people the expectations just people lowered the bar a little bit and just said, you know, we can do meetings, on a laptop from my kitchen, you know, I can still go live, if I've got the kids running around in the background. And yeah, people just accepted that that had to happen in that circumstance. But then, even afterwards, now, I think the expectations have come down in that you don't have to have, you know, perfectly set up studio to be able to take photos of your products, and you don't have to film in any particular location when you're doing reels. And people don't need that anymore. They don't expect that anymore. So it makes it so much easier for ordinary people to just film stuff as and when they're doing it in their day. It just makes it a lot more accessible, I think as well.

Jennie Lister  13:43  
Definitely. And you talked about boundaries as well. So let's talk about that. Because that was on that was on my list. So talk to me about your view on boundaries. When it comes to social media.

Speaker 2  13:54  
Well, I can talk the talk, I don't always walk the walk in there. You know, we know we shouldn't be looking at our phone late at night or first thing in the morning. But I still I still do do that. What I what I definitely did at the beginning, though was turn off my notifications for my apps on my phone. If you don't do that, go and do that now. Because that will interrupt your day all day long, and you won't get anything else done. So take you notifications of your social media apps, if it's really important. You can schedule some time at lunchtime at the end of the day to go on and check it that made a big difference to my productivity in the day. At weekends. I do try and actively put the phone in the other room put it away so that I don't you know I'm not looking at it when the kids are around and stuff. It's very hard to do. I'm not going to say what happened because because I've got this weird blend of working on social media but then I also still, like want to speak to friends And, and watch funny videos and stuff entertainment anyway. But if I did that all of the time, it would all just blend and they'd never be any kind of divide between work and non work. So yeah, I'm still working on that. But we can do is definitely less, less phone time. Yeah.

Jennie Lister  15:18  
And what about holidays? Do you do social media when you're on holiday? Or do you just put it down?

Speaker 2  15:23  
I still use sort of record videos of us because, well, I still want to have videos and things and pictures of like, my family on holiday and still doing stuff. But I don't necessarily post it during the holidays, I will sort of bank it and then use it maybe when we're back. Yeah, but yeah, I try to pre planned stuff so that there's still things scheduled to go out even if I'm away, or I'm not working. So I don't work Fridays now as well, which is one of my goals for this year. So I block out Fridays, and I don't do any work on a Friday. We now like March time, April time, I've managed pot from one Friday. So that is a battle. Personally, another boundary for me. But I find that unless I've booked stuff in to keep me busy. I will naturally like drift towards myself, like in the right frame of mind. But it's not easy. I know it's not easy. I can't do it all the time.

Jennie Lister  16:17  
So is that Friday's a day? You're kind of hanging out with friends go out for the day? Do things for yourself?

Speaker 2  16:23  
Yeah, go have lunch with my mom, go shopping, go and read in Costa like do anything else but work? Oh,

Jennie Lister  16:31  
I love that. That's really cool. Big fan, big fan of that. Okay, so one of the things that I wanted to talk about was that love hate relationship that I feel that a lot of people have got with social media. I feel like sometimes people are really involved it and like posting loads. And then the next day, they kind of like, oh, stressing me out. I don't want to touch it. I don't wanna go anywhere near it like what's like, what would you say to people for how to kind of fall in love with social media, again,

Speaker 2  17:04  
I think people go all or nothing. And during that all, like loads of things are working, you know, you're building up some momentum, and you get caught up in the, I need to keep the momentum going, I need to post more, I need to do more to keep like, I'm getting loads of traction, I'm getting loads, so you do more and more and more. And then it gets to a point where you will burn out you will get you're getting ill and emergency happens and things just have to stop. And then things stop really, really suddenly. And I've seen this a lot with like some of the bigger creators that I follow some people like much more advanced than me in the in the industry that they get to the point that like, I can't keep this up, I can't keep this content wheel running. Yeah, they get to a point where maybe they've they've grown something that actually isn't enjoyable for them anymore. They don't have the time freedom and the you know, the decisions, they can't make the decisions that they wanted to in the sort of business that they've grown, They've just grown this massive monster that just needs to keep chucking out content, because they've just built on it and built on it and built on it and wanted to keep that momentum going and doing more and more and more. Whereas there's, there's a lot to be said, for keeping things. I don't want to say consistent but maintaining things. Yeah, they are. There is a lot to be said for that. And I don't think people talk about this enough. They'd maybe say the word consistent. But it's still hard to maintain things that are working well. And get into some good processes and good systems for maintaining what's working at the level that you're at, it's still hard work to do that. It's even harder work to up it. keep upping it. Yeah. So I help people try to get to like that sweet spot of, we're working out what's good, what's working, let's keep doing that. But also with a view for you to maintain this for three months or six months, not just let's go for like a crazy intense month and get you loads and loads of views. And then you just fall off the cliff at the end of the month. Because you're let's get to a point where you can maintain this with me, but also without me so that you can do this by yourself. And we can keep consistent. I don't like that word consistent, but we can you visible and you can maintain it for as long as you want to.

Jennie Lister  19:31  
Absolutely. And if you do that, and you then do the disappearing app. I feel like coming back is so much harder. Yeah. Because I've spoke to a few people that have done that. And they're like, Oh, I know I need to get back on this week and it's like a big deal to get back on social media and you feel like you have to come on and then explain to everyone why you've been gone for like the last month or whatever.

Speaker 2  19:52  
Yes. And also with taking like taking holidays. So last summer. I wanted to take the whole All of August off, which in hindsight was a bit ambitious to be fair, but you know, my posting and my visibility, like, went to the floor in August, because I just wasn't posting anything. And then I tried to pick it up again in September. And it was really hard to get it going. Again, it's that like, from one extreme to another, it's really, really difficult. So there's a lot to be said, for maintaining, you know, a set amount and keeping that consistent. Whether you're on holiday, or you're launching, or you're taking a break, having that kind of baseline, I think it's just easier. It's just easier to do.

Jennie Lister  20:37  
Yeah. And you know, what question I'm going to ask you now, after you've just said that, what what would you recommend, in terms of like, how many posts how many reels? How many stories? Like, have you got like a magic number or, or not? Or? That's

Speaker 2  20:53  
a tough question, because I've given this number to people. And that's been too high a number for them. And we've had to sort of say, well, we need to lower it for you, you're not going to be able to maintain that where somebody else might be like, right, well, I could easily post twice a day, and maintain that it's much, much harder, I'm not gonna lie, it's much, much harder to grow on Instagram than it used to be. But I think as a minimum, you want to aim for four posts a week, any less than that I think you're going to really struggle to, to grow. Yeah, you know, if you're pushing me for a number, I'm gonna say for a week. But if that is a stretch for you, and that is a real stretch for you to be able to factor that in and create that content regularly, then you would need to drop that down. Because there's no point doing a really big blitz month, and then going quiet for a month just skews it all.

Jennie Lister  21:45  
And would that be reels or posts just for kind of things a week or four stories or

Speaker 2  21:51  
week depends what your goal is. Because if your goal is to get seen by more people, maybe bring some more people onto your email list, or you know, brand awareness at the very sort of beginning then I would say just go for it with reels, use lots and lots of reels. If your goal is different in that, you know, you're about to launch something that actually you want to build the relationship with your customers more, you want to increase the the interactions with your content more ready for your launch or your big promotion. We'd be looking at feed posts, static posts, and we'd be looking at more story based content or authority based content to be able to get them into a position where they're ready to buy at the right time when you're ready to launch. So I think it depends where you are in your process, like what your goal is, what kind of format you want to use. So there's no like, set

Jennie Lister  22:50  
thing? That's a great answer, though. That is a brilliant answer. And I'm all about strategy. And you've kind of touched on it now. Which is great, because that's a great segue for my next question. So what he's asking you about how people can build that sense of strategy, that sense of purpose into their social media, because, like you say, I feel like a lot of people and me included, you just post because you feel like you should be posting. And there's not necessarily like an underlying clarity around your social media strategy.

Speaker 2  23:23  
Yeah. So it all starts with what you're selling. And when you're selling it, I think, if you don't know when you're selling it, or when you're doing a launch, or when you're going to be promoting it, it's really difficult then to put any marketing in place to direct people to that. And let me go through an example might be easier for me to explain, right? So I have a three months, you might say, right, the very last week, I have that 90 days, I'm going to launch some new coaching programme on my new product line. What I would then do is work backwards from that week. And we'd be looking at maybe the weeks before, we want to be building your authority and building your trust and using content that's going to show people that you're an expert in what you do. So lots of social proof, lots of content from other people, lots of like testimonials, that kind of stuff, any kind of mention of you in the press or an award that you've won or your guests speaking somewhere. That's the time that we're going to be telling people about that because that builds your authority and that helps people to trust you before that maybe the month before. That's when we need to get people to like you. Okay, that's when we need to be drawing people in with things like oh my god, you're you have a dog as well. Or, Oh, I think you live near me. I've seen you a cafe near me or I'm gonna go and you're like, you lost this film as well or you're a tea drinker or you know, those kinds of things that draw people in because we're like, oh, that's persons like me. And then before fora that we actually need to be drawing people in in terms of reaching more people telling people who we are what we do, so that people know us. So going from that point of what it is you want to launch, you then sort of like map backwards to the kinds of things you can say in your content. So if someone found you on day one, they are saying things about you to get to know us, like, who you help, and what you do, what your offers are, what your experiences, then they get to like you as a person, you know, she's got kids like me, or she left her corporate job like me, you know, the connection gets a little bit deeper. And then you get to the trust me stuff like, Oh, she's really good. She's spoken in the group, or there's an article that's been written about her, that's really good. Someone else has shared a video about their experiences, that's really good. And then when you come to sell, that whole process has already been done. And they're really, really warm and ready to accept your offer or to take that next step with you. So that's how it can sort of be mapped out over over three months. It's not an overnight thing on social media, you've got to give it that time. Yeah. All of that in to be able to be ready to buy your thing.

Jennie Lister  26:18  
And what if people aren't launching? Or do you think they should always be launching something new, what if someone just has got an ongoing service or an ongoing product out there in the market,

Speaker 2  26:29  
I still say that there needs to be a time in the month when you are actively promoting it and actively talking about it in your posts. So you could condense that three months down into one month, and have a have a cycle that you do every month where you're bringing new people in, you're nurturing them and building that relationship with them. And then maybe towards the end of the month is when you're reminding them just flagging up, these are things that you can buy, this is what's on offer at the moment. And you can do it as a monthly cycle, if it's something that you have available all of the time. But I do think you need to have that dead, like designated time in your calendar, when you are going to actively sell it. Because if you don't, what you end up, what ends up happening is that you do a lot of marketing, but you just don't really sell the thing. And you're relying on people finding it themselves or, you know, stumbling onto your website. And you know, booking a call them set that doing a lot of the work themselves, when actually needs to be you that's doing the work and pushing your thing out there and reminding people that this is the thing that you offer. And this is the thing that's going to help them as well. So lots of people come into our audience, they want a bit of help. They're a bit interested, they're a bit curious, they're not sure. You have to kind of push your thing that you're selling at the front to say this is the thing that's going to help you.

Jennie Lister  27:58  
I love that advice. I think that's actually really helpful and really refreshing.

Speaker 2  28:02  
Yeah, well, that's how it works in my brain. And I I pick up from people who are much further ahead of me in terms of like, their digital marketing knowledge or their sales knowledge. And it's what's worked for them as well. So I know, this isn't just, you know, this isn't just what works for me and my clients. This is what's working out there for most people right now. Yeah.

Jennie Lister  28:25  
And it's something that I'm really passionate about, because you don't want to just be showing up all the time and exhausting yourself with marketing and seeing no return. You've got to be in business to make a profit, I would hope Yeah,

Speaker 2  28:39  
yeah, you are, you are in busy business to sell. And it's kind of your job to be the salesperson. Like in your business. You're you're all of the jobs to be fair, but you're also the job of the salesperson. And so there will be times in the in the month or times in in the year where you have to put yourself hat on, go and talk to people about the thing that you sell. Because, really, why have you put it together? If you don't think people want it? Yeah, why are you selling it? If you don't think people want it, you have to be your biggest cheerleader in that, you know, you're the thing that you're selling, people are going to need like people want this is going to help people it's going to save people time or money or heart ache or something it's going to help people. So you need to go out and tell people how it can help them.

Jennie Lister  29:28  
Yeah. And even if we do have that love hate relationship with You can't deny that social media has given us such an opportunity to Yeah, to free marketing, basically, how else would we have connected like when you think about back in the day when I was a kid, there was no way of growing your business. How would you grow your business? It would be it would be meeting people out and about and talking to people it wouldn't be online. So it's such an opportunity.

Speaker 2  29:56  
And it is a free platform and it's a platform that that can tweak and can change. And I know you're that annoys people that it tweaks and it changes. But it's a free platform that we're given. And we have to invest our time, as opposed to money, you know, you could go down the ads route, you could go down plenty of other routes, where you can invest time, invest money into those routes, but social media is more about investing your time. And for startups or for people that are new to business, you don't have money, you have time. So it's a really easy way for anybody to start a business. And that's why it's absolutely exploded because of how accessible it is for everyone. So you just have to be mindful that, yeah, it's a free platform. But it doesn't owe you anything, you still have to invest your time in making the content learning about it learning about your audience. And if you don't want to invest your time, the alternative is to invest your money. Yeah.

Jennie Lister  30:59  
And do you do any of your clients do ads on social media? Do you work with them on that? Or is that something you're like? I'm not going near that?

Speaker 2  31:05  
No, you know what, it's something that I think I want to learn, because it's not something I'm very familiar with. But the people that I tend to work with don't tend to have ad budgets. Yeah. But it's something that I want to look into more because I want to see how it can work for smaller businesses, or entrepreneurs that don't have these big ad budgets of 1000s and 1000s of pounds that they can, they can use and they can test. So yeah, it's something that I would like to find out more about. But to be honest, it's the it's the it's the barrier of the money. And lots of small businesses don't have the money to just spend on them.

Jennie Lister  31:42  
And you can do so much with organic marketing. So yeah, that's fair enough. So I wanted to ask you, if you could share. So I assume you're on Instagram, social media a lot, you see lots of great content. And I wondered if you could share one or two things that you've seen that you've gone, oh, wow, that is such a clever piece of content, like that is so so clever. And it's really made an impact on you.

Speaker 2  32:04  
I think they're the ones that make me stop are are the ones that are more vulnerable. So I know, you've mentioned that before. And I definitely think that that, that does cut through a lot of the entertainment content that's on there. So there's a place for, you know, funny videos, dancing videos, people being silly people doing comedy stuff, there's a place for that, absolutely. But what's actually makes me stop is when people share an image or graphic or something, and they're actually sharing something that's quite vulnerable, maybe in terms of like, something that's gone wrong in their business, or something that, you know, some kind of hardship that they've gone through. And they've felt like brave enough, or in a position where they can talk about it, and they can give some advice. So they can, you know, share how it's happened and what they've learned from it. That kind of stuff makes me stop, but it also makes me feel more connected to that person. Yeah. Because then you're like, Okay, well, they are a human, like things did don't always work out for that person, or they've had a crap day as well today. And it makes you connect with them more makes them appear more human. And I feel like that kind of content is arguably more valuable than the entertainment kind of, you know, anybody could do or you can see in other places, I feel like that kind of more vulnerable, maybe emotional stuff. That's the kind of stuff that I remember more because it makes me stop. But it also makes me feel something when I'm reading it or looking at it. And it's that sort of emotional connection that then I think, okay, that's there's, there's something more behind that there's a story, there's a real message helps me connect with them better.

Jennie Lister  34:05  
Yeah, I love that. I definitely think being vulnerable is is refreshing, isn't it? And I'm not really a fan of all the entertaining stuff. I don't really look at any of them. And I don't really create it either.

Speaker 2  34:16  
You know what, I think there's there are times when I'm like, Yeah, I'll put my sassy cancel on and we'll do a bit of like, lip synching and you know, there might be some like good music or whatnot. And you can you can show that side of view as well. But there's the option where you can show that side of you if you want to, but you can you can absolutely not involve yourself in any of that as well if you want to.

Jennie Lister  34:39  
It's completely up to you. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's so funny. Are there any accounts that you love following that are really good to watch?

Speaker 2  34:47  
Oh, my favourite account chords is called the female lead. Okay. I think it's the with an underscore between the words so the underscore female and will lead. And as a whole account, like filled with really inspirational female lead content that, you know is really mission based but also quite funny and you know, represents the whole female community across the whole world. So when I'm feeling a bit like me, I will go on to their account and just like look at some of their recent staff. And they're like, really nice stories of like, women around the world who have overcome hardship, or like celebrity women who have been able to like, break through the glass ceilings and stuff, it just sort of like gives you a bit of motivation. Inspiration is like a woman in business or a woman in the world to like, do bigger and better things. There's some really funny stuff on there too. But it does sort of, like, inspire me.

Jennie Lister  35:49  
I love that I'm all about love a bit of inspiration for sure. That sounds great. I'm gonna be checking it out. And I'll put it on the show notes as well.

Speaker 2  35:56  
Yeah, I've played in my stories recently. So yeah, definitely go and check that

Jennie Lister  35:59  
one out. Amazing. So, want to talk more about you and your business before we wrap up? So talk to me about what your proudest moment has been so far in your business?

Speaker 2  36:11  
Oh, good question. I think when I launched my membership last year, so it would have been last

Speaker 3  36:20  
March, I ran an online challenged. And, you know, I

Speaker 2  36:25  
had a plan, I had a strategy I had it all laid out how I wanted it to go. But I completely underestimated the numbers. And afterwards, I was just really surprised at how successful it was. And it's not that I didn't think it was going to be successful. Maybe there was a part of me that didn't think it's gonna be successful. Because it's the first one everyone was like, Oh, your first one might not be very good. Bringing that thought out, let's have some realistic numbers be the first one. But like, the numbers were much better than I planned. And afterwards, I was like, bloody hell, like I've absolutely smashed my target. Like, this isn't this is ridiculous. And I was just on such a high. Because there was an element of like, I've worked hard and like like this has been building up and like, this is the end point now. And I've managed to do it. So I was like, Oh, my God, I've managed to do it. But also, like, a lot more people came into the membership than I even thought and so I was a little bit like there's a lot of people that believe in me. And yeah, that was really emotional as well.

Jennie Lister  37:41  
That sounds incredible. Yeah. So I had a target of

Speaker 2  37:45  
20. For the for the launch of the membership. And on the when I closed the car, I had 52 members. Which is amazing. So yeah, I'd like more than doubled the target. And I just didn't like disbelief. But yeah, it's just so now I have such an amazing community that I support now every week. And yeah, I've been running it for. Yeah, about a year now. And yeah, it's like the whole basis of my business.

Jennie Lister  38:13  
Well, I was literally about to say it's your one year anniversary, you need to celebrate it.

Unknown Speaker  38:18  
I have got a few plans. I

Jennie Lister  38:20  
was gonna say I'm sure you're already on that. That is such an amazing story. And how nice is it that you underestimated your numbers? Because you absolutely smashed your targets. That's brilliant. Yeah.

Speaker 2  38:33  
And but the only way I I sort of knew that was because I'd put targets in place. And I speak to lots of people that don't ever have any goals or ever have any targets. I'm like, Well, how will you know if you've hit them or not? Or you've over exceeded them if you don't ever put them in place. So you've got to put some numbers in, even if they're small numbers to start with, so that you can meet them. And then next time you can exceed them or you can just smash them completely from the first question I get.

Jennie Lister  39:05  
I know a few of my clients and people that I speak to my networking group and things like that are thinking about memberships. What would be your advice, then? Because you're obviously experienced? Now you're a year into it? What would be your advice?

Speaker 2  39:19  
Oh, okay. So think and plan very carefully how you're going to launch it because you only get one shot at your founding launch. So if you want to go big or like really, really go for it. Do that on the founding launch, because then that sort of filters through to any of your your next ones. So there's no point doing it half heartedly and sort of saying, Oh, the next time I'll offer prizes or the next time I'll do this, do everything in the first one and make it a really, really amazing founding launch. Because those that literally is the foundation for your membership and for your community. So have a little bit of research into who who has run memberships, maybe you can get some support on other people who've done launches and things to make sure that that first one goes really, really well. And it's really, really successful. Because what you don't want to happen is you launch it, or you open it at the beginning. And you know, two or three people come in, or you have really small numbers, because the whole point of a membership is that it's built on a community. And if you've got all numbers, it's going to be difficult to get that community vibe from the beginning. And to get the ball rolling. I know a lot of people who have started memberships, and they've not got the number that they wanted to at the beginning. And you'll naturally have people drop out as the months go on, and then it's just fizzled out because there hasn't been that community to keep people into it. And the community is in a membership, I would say it's more important than the trainings or the sessions or the resources in there. The community vibe is the bit that keeps people in a membership.

Jennie Lister  41:02  
I think that's so true. And I don't think people Yeah, I think people underestimate the value of that community.

Speaker 2  41:08  
Yeah. And so if you, if you don't get that, in that beginning, launch, is difficult to then build that further down the line. So yeah, build that in. And if you're doing it online, I would definitely recommend doing a challenge or some kind of online event. Because you're getting people together into that community, and sort of getting the ball rolling on that.

Jennie Lister  41:31  
Wow, I love that advice. That's brilliant. I think that's really going to help people. So thank you for sharing. Okay, I want to ask you about your goals for your business. Because I love planning, I love strategy. I love thinking about the future, I know that we should also have a bit of go with the flow and see where the road takes us. But what would you say if you fast forwarded like three years, five years? Where do you see longer on the ground? Or

Speaker 2  41:56  
God? I hate this question. Sorry, I think because when I, you know, this is only my second year of business. So it's really hard to see the kind of things that I could do in two or three years time. Because, you know, two years ago, there wasn't even like, this wasn't even a thing. But I know that, you know, I want to x, it sounds weird, but I want to expand beyond Instagram, that is like totally my niche, and I get that. But there is plenty of scope for me to help content on other places. And a lot of the things that I do and are not actually Instagram specific, you know, they're showing up in your content wherever you want that to be. So I think there's scope for me to go beyond Instagram, there's also things like, I need to build my website, I need to get that, you know, more professional looking, you know, I would like to be, I would like to be in articles and have PR and you know, have awards and that kind of stuff as well. But I think there's lots of like, behind the scenes stuff I have to do in terms of like getting my own processes and systems and things in a place where I can then grow again. So like, I'm in a bit of a maintaining zone with things and a lot of like, behind the scenes stuff. But it would it be nice for me to Yeah, maybe maybe in three years, five years, you know, I would have people working with me supporting the business so that I could have, you know, have have team members, maybe we would look at more of the management side of things, because I know as people's businesses grow, they are short on time, because they're spending so much time with their clients. That actually there's there's scope for us to take the content creation, the management side away from them and manage that for them. It's something that I've dabbled in, but I haven't quite put my finger on exactly the right kind of way that I can help in that situation. Yeah, but that's something that I can explore in the next couple of years for sure.

Jennie Lister  44:01  
I love that. And actually, to be fair, when I work with my clients, we often talk about the next year. So asking you about the next three to five years is really mean. I'm sorry,

Speaker 2  44:11  
three to five years ago, I wasn't even talking about any of this stuff. So yes. Yeah. I find it difficult to think that far ahead. Yeah. And

Jennie Lister  44:20  
I'm with you. I think 2023 is all about the year of stability and maintaining and that's how I'm working in my business, partly because we're in what is probably one of the worst recessions I've ever lived through. But it's just a think it's just a really sound way to be right now.

Speaker 2  44:35  
Yeah, and we don't always need to be growing. I mean, I've mentioned about maintaining quite a lot. And there's still probably effort that goes into maintaining what you've already built and enjoying where you already are. Instead of just striving for the next bigger and better thing, getting to a point where you have built a monster that you

Jennie Lister  44:56  
are not enjoying anymore. Exactly and your community sounds amazing and it sounds I was like you genuinely love it. And I think if you then try to do the next thing and the next thing that you're going to lose focus on those people that have believed in you and invested in you. And it sounds like you really have got your priorities in the right place.

Speaker 2  45:13  
Yeah, I'd like to think so. And yeah, I think because I've seen people that are further down the line, sort of get carried away with something or you know, get distracted by something and go off off on a tangent. And then they get to a point of like, oh, well, this isn't even what I wanted to do. I'm very conscious now of the things that I say yes to. Because for everything that you say yes to you're, you're inevitably saying no to something else. So I could offers I could offer something new, I could announce something new right now. But I would probably have to give up my no work Fridays to be able to plan that and deliver that. My new work Friday is to be able to offer that. Maybe sometimes I do and that would be an intentional thing. I'd say actually, I'm gonna work harder because I really want to do this, and that's fine. But then I go, how bad? Do I really want to do it? Do I want to give up my Fridays, to be able to give the time to this? You know, every time you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else? So I am very intentional with what I say yes to now. Yeah, that

Jennie Lister  46:14  
makes a lot of sense. I think you're so right. A lot to learn from that statement. What would be the next platform if you did another one?

Speaker 2  46:24  
So I am on Facebook, but I'm on sort of Facebook by default, I think, because I've lived all my life on Facebook. But I think the next one for me to sort of really properly learn about for business is tic tock. You can't really deny that it's there. It is there. I think I just need to learn about it. And to have some time where I just play around with it myself and see what content that works on Instagram does it work on tick tock? What works on tick tock can it you know, and to sort of give myself self time to just play around with it before I feel in a position to say to the people that I work with, you also need to be on there as well when this is how it works, or this is what you should focus on. So yeah, tick tock is on my radar for this year as well.

Jennie Lister  47:10  
Watch this space. Okay, so I always wrap up my episodes, asking my guests for three top tips for our listeners today. So could you give me your three? Lorna's three top tips, please?

Speaker 2  47:25  
Oh, okay. So if you are a busy person, which I guess most of us are, a tip would be to plan a bit of time in the week, like, like you would for an appointment, or a Zoom meeting or something, you know, put half an hour in your calendar every week, to engage with your audience. So this is my time, we have this on a first day, 11 o'clock every week, this is a session that I do with my members. And it's an engagement session, and we sit together on our phones over zoom, and I lead the session, I say, right, we're going to send five new follower messages, we're gonna go in dm 10 of our followers, we're gonna go and follow up with that conversation we had last week. And so during that half an hour, we are actively and intentionally speaking to the people in our audience. Because unless it's in the diary, as like a set time and a set task, you're not going to do it that much. It will just be squeezed in here, there and everywhere. It might be like a 32nd tear while you're on your phone or five minutes while you're in the car. And it's hard to get like a decent system going for it. Which is why we have the regular session in my membership. Because then I know even if I've got like the craziest hectic week, there will be half hour carved out where I will do this. And it's the most impactful session that we have. Because there's people that during that half an hour will be like, Oh, that person's got back to me, and they've booked a call or refer back to me. And they do want me to bake their cake. They've just sent me the deposit. And so like actively dip, like we do it all together to keep yourself accountable. But you know, sitting and doing it and it's following up, it's following up, although in your audience and that it's that bridge between marketing and sales, you're sitting there basically trying to get the sale, and or push them over the bridge to sale. So

Jennie Lister  49:28  
I love I love the bridge analogy.

Speaker 2  49:33  
A little bridge between marketing and sales. So that's that set time every week where I'm like, Well, can I speak to some new people can I can tap into some people that I already speak to? Is there any one who's interested in something that I offer? You know, Can I remind them about it? Can I you know, put the link out there? Do you want to buy it do you not and it's that dedicated time so having a dedicated bit of time to do that is really, really impactful. What was the other thing too more tip tips I'm not being afraid to to be like the active person on there. I think there's a lot of people that are lurkers, and a lot of people who consume a lot, but then, you know, a very passively scrolling. But then there's not that many people who are active in terms of commenting on a post or sending a reply or send didn't even a DM to somebody new, there's not that many people who are active on there, I want you to try to go from more of a passive approach to a more active approach. And you'll find you get more back. Back, if you're the person that's, you know, starting the conversation, you will get more of a response. So try to be more active and less passive. And third tip, I've got so many things I could say, like don't like don't let the fact that maybe like not that many people liked your last post, or only three people like they're like, Oh, it must have been crap, like nobody cares. Like, don't let one post get into your head. Because it's way more than one post. It's maybe it was way more than 100 posts, if your business is way more than Instagram, and you know, not having you know, tonnes of people engage with your stuff on Instagram, not having a really big following on there does not define your business and does not define you. I know people who are making so much money on Instagram with less than 1000 followers, like, absolutely be done. There's no correlation between following numbers and income or, you know, how much engagement you get and how successful you are. There's no correlation. So don't let you know the fact that no one was interested in that post affects anything else that you're going to do.

Jennie Lister  52:04  
Oh, I love that. That's really powerful. Really good advice. Really good. Okay, so finally, can you share Lorna with us, your websites, your socials how people can get involved in your glow up membership?

Speaker 2  52:18  
Oh, perfect. Okay, so my website, although it's a work in process, Lorna and the Graham dot code at UK, you can usually find it through the link in my bio. So if you're on Instagram, you can come find me at Lorna and gramme. So it's a little full stops between those words. And yeah, so that should go through the link in my bio, and you'll get to my website, you also get to have free training of mine, which is called Three ways to save time with your Instagram content. So no training and just get emailed to you can watch it whenever you like. And it just goes through three of the best ways I think to save time when you're putting content together, especially when it's you and you're short of time, because you've got 400 Other things to do. There's some ideas and and I'll walk you through exactly how I would do it and give you examples and everything. So you can grab that. And if you want to become a member, you can come join us in glow up, the easiest way would be to pop me a message probably message and I'll send you the link, but you probably be able to find it through the link in my bio as well. And yeah, you can come and join the membership. We do weekly sessions. So we have a creator workshop session on a Tuesday where we create piece of content together, have our engagements on a Thursday, where we sit and work together to engage with our audience. There's monthly training in this q&a, there's content clinics, and yeah, and there's a Facebook group for the community as well. So yeah, if you want to be part of our ask me about that, then be active and be brave and send me a message on his.

Jennie Lister  53:49  
Yeah, use all of the tips that you've been given today. Absolutely. And we will link it as well in the show notes of the episodes. So yeah, fantastic. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on the journalists podcast, I have feel like we've covered so much. I know when I sent you the list of questions. You were like, Oh, my God, we're gonna be talking for hours.

Unknown Speaker  54:09  
It's been about an hour. That's fine. I've managed to tell you all the good bits. Yeah,

Jennie Lister  54:14  
absolutely. We've covered stuff from boundaries, what people were struggling with on social media. I love that we talked about like your entrepreneurial journey from teaching because that, for me is something that I always ask my guests, because I'm really passionate about helping people make that shift. And we've also talked about strategy when it comes to social media, which is very close to my heart. So thank you for all of the amazing insights. And I will see you next time. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the journalist, a podcast. I truly appreciate every single one of you. If you'd like to leave me a review on your podcast app, I would love that. And if you'd like to follow me on social media, it's at genista coaching on Instagram and LinkedIn